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Author Topic: Sinar creates adapter to mount DSLRs as digital backs  (Read 17916 times)
jduncan
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« on: July 29, 2010, 03:11:16 PM »
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072901...rpslrsystem.asp

I don't know what to do with it. But it is an interesting development.  I found it related to this LL debate:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=45070
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Streetwise
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 03:57:57 PM »
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Any ideas on cost of the adapter? And what about glass? What lenses?
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feppe
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Oh this shows up in here!


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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 03:59:43 PM »
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Quote from: Streetwise
Any ideas on cost of the adapter? And what about glass? What lenses?

From the first paragraph in the linked press release:

"It will be available from next month at a retail price of 1980 Swiss Francs (~ €1440)."
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »
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Hello,

I made my own mount by using a Sinar lens board and taking the mount off a old Nikon extension tube and gluing it on to the lens board with Araldite.

It works perfectly.

Cheers

Simon
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 04:55:11 PM »
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Quote from: jduncan
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072901...rpslrsystem.asp

I don't know what to do with it. But it is an interesting development.  I found it related to this LL debate:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=45070



I paid $150 for one that allows you to move the mount left to right so you can stitch. It cost me $180usd from China.  It has sat in my drawerr for a couple years. Testing with the 12mp and a 14mp 35mm, using LF lens makes little sense with these 35mm sensors.  Is there a reason now ?  If someone made a lensboard with front mount for a RZ lens to mount, or even a canon(I know image circle issue)...That I might buy.
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rueyloon
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2010, 03:34:34 AM »
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R YOU SEE RYE US ??!!!

I wish these companies would stay alive, but looks like they are experts in doing themselves in.
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PdF
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2010, 04:27:34 AM »
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Where are the electric connections (of the left-hand side of the camera) ? There is not enough place !

PdF
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fredjeang
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2010, 07:45:18 AM »
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Am I the only one to see in that Sinar adapter an indication of bad times coming for MFD manufacturers?
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CBarrett
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2010, 08:03:07 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Am I the only one to see in that Sinar adapter an indication of bad times coming for MFD manufacturers?


I believe you are.  These are cool and all, I have one for my Arca, but they have a lot of limitations, namely the use of wide lenses.  Maybe you could use wide Medium Format lenses, since they have a retrofocus design, but if you are going to use a view camera, why settle for lenses that are not quite as sharp as Rodenstock and Schneider's just so you can put a dslr on?

Ooohhh, you know what I haven't tried yet?  Putting the 5d on and shooting video.... video with a view camera...ROFL.... I am such a geek!


CB
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2010, 09:50:59 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Am I the only one to see in that Sinar adapter an indication of bad times coming for MFD manufacturers?

Why the negativity?

Cambo, Arca Swiss and others have had these adapters for many years.

The death of MF has been predicted on this forum every year since it was started.

There will always be people who strive for more than "good enough".

Doug Peterson
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ondebanks
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 10:16:30 AM »
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Quote from: HarperPhotos
Hello,

I made my own mount by using a Sinar lens board and taking the mount off a old Nikon extension tube and gluing it on to the lens board with Araldite.

It works perfectly.

Cheers

Simon

Same here, only with a Toyo lensboard and Mamiya 645 mount. And I didn't even need to cut or glue anything.

[attachment=23405:DSC00868...pc_cropR.jpg] (Apologies for the crappy mobile phone pic)


Here's my DIY recipe: M645 camera (was with film, now with MFDB) -> M645 to Kiev60/P6 adapter -> Kiev60 reversing ring (62mm thread) -> Toyo Lensboard with Copal 3 hole -> 62mm to 77mm filter step down ring.

The reversing ring ($10) slips through the 65mm Copal 3 hole in the lensboard ($30 used), and is locked on the other side by the step down ring ($5) - tightened hard (and perhaps glued/epoxied if you want extra security). This therefore gives me a lensboard with a P6/Kiev60 bayonet such as you'd find at the back of any P6/Kiev60 lens.

You can then attach any of the following MF cameras, with the appropriate P6 adapter ($20): Mamiya 645, Contax 645, Pentax 645. Mamiya in my case. It is rather nice to get electronic focus confirmation and TTL AE with a large format monorail  

The only thing I had to specifically buy to complete this project was the $5 step down ring. I already had all the other bits (which tells you that yes, I did dabble quite heavily in P6/Kiev stuff once upon a time   ).

I've seen M645 reversing rings on ebay and they might even allow for a thinner all-in-one adapter than having the two P6 pieces. The 58mm version should work; the 67mm version would require a larger hole than Copal 3. Just be careful with clearance. My arrangement gives me a few mm to spare between the lensboard and either the PD prism on my old M645s, or the grip on my 645AFD. Any closer and the AFD's shutter button would be awkward to reach.

There's also nothing unique about it being a Toyo lensboard. It could be Sinar, Linhof, Horseman - anything as long as it has a Copal 3 hole. And it's trivially easy to make.
I therefore call it "Ray's Any-LF to Any-645 EZ Adapter" (TM, all rights reserved, shoplifters will be prosecuted, prices may go down as well as up, coffee may be very hot)

Of course as CB says, you are limited in terms of focal lengths with a rig like this. Tabletop closeups, macro etc. are of course no problem with shorter lenses. But the M645 is 63mm from focal plane to flange, the adapters to the rear lensboard bring that up to around 80mm, and rear lensboard to front lensboard is about 50-55mm with a bag bellows squashed up tight. So around 135mm in total. On a flat lensboard, LF-type lenses of 150mm and above will reach infinity, and my 135/3.5 Xenotar just falls short but it can do portrait distances - I plan to upgrade to a recessed Copal 1 board so that it can also reach infinity. A recessed board would knock (39.5mm) off the flange distance, reducing it to ~95mm - which would make RB67 and possibly RZ67 lenses (112mm & 105mm registration respectively) usable at infinity - now that would be exciting!      There is of course the M645 50/4 shift lens, but if I rigged an RB/RZ lensboard I could have a 50/4.5 shift-tilt lens. Previous attempts or suggestions I've seen at getting RB/RZ lenses to work on a LF-style camera with film backs or MF digital have all hit trouble at the hurdle of "how do you cock the lens shutter?". So it has to be done with a focal plane shuttered camera, and in MF digital that means something like my AFD.

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yaya
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2010, 10:40:04 AM »
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Quote from: fredjeang
Am I the only one to see in that Sinar adapter an indication of bad times coming for MFD manufacturers?

That's funny...a large format camera manufacturer provides adaptability for 35mm cameras and that's a sign of bad times for MFD???


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fredjeang
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2010, 11:03:38 AM »
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Cool guys, it is just a sensation, a question and nothing in my mind against MFD,
on the contrary and I think I've been expressed my clear support for MF and LF many times exept when it comes to back's LCD and stuff like that.

Sinar adapter for Canon does not sound to me like just another facility. There must be a clear decision to enter that market, a market where dslr users need these kind of feature...and that's because many are working more and more with the Canon. Ignoring it is IMO not seeing the current reality.
I've never said that MF is going to disappear, I said if hard times are coming and more in form of a question.

What yes I'm seeing here, and maybe it is just here and not in the US or the UK, is more and more MF users going on DSLR and at the same time embrassing LF. Well, that is a clear tendency and not a mirage.
I'm talking about new product because in the second-hand market MFD is going well now that some affordable gear are circulating.

My question was if Sinar smell something and started to "work for Canon" because curiously all the photographers I know that shooted before MFD are now in Canon. This monopoly is almost insulting but that's what is happening here.

Basically in Spain, Hasselblad is very present and extremely well distributed. Then Phase behind but much less, and that is pretty much all. Leaf was in one point with Sinar. Distribution is really a big problem here, and yeah, that's not Paris neither N.Y but if you want to invest seriously in MF gear in Madrid you will probably end with Hassy just for that reason.

When I look at these Arca, Sinar and the Rodenstock and Schneider's etc...I feel admiration and respect. This is all a philosophy, a state of art and if they were not people like C.Barrett the photography industry would look dslr boring. We would loose a lot.
I have my view on those LF gear for the next years, no doubt because I feel an irresistible attraction and that matches with my work and my time.
Curiously, the Rodenstock here are incredibly cheap compare to the quality obtained. Indeed, a part from backs, LF are bargains.

So I wish the best to MF manufacturers, I was just asking surprised by that Sinar adapter if there was something else behind the scene.

I seem to be the only one, so I guess there is nothing to worry about.

Ps: Chris, if you do a movie with the 5D and the view camera, hope you'll post a youtube sample. I want to see that deph of field.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 11:29:57 AM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2010, 01:47:24 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
snip

The death of MF has been predicted on this forum every year since it was started.

There will always be people who strive for more than "good enough".

I don't believe any professional photographer predicts or wants to see an end to any professional piece of equipment.  

I also don't believe that anyone that pays their bills with a camera goes out and thinks "that'll be good enough".

The medium format dealers and makers have use the "that'll be good enough" mantra against their competition for way too long.  Instead of dissing one format, I strongly suggest making their own equipment more usable and I think you as well as anyone know what that means.

What I do know, at least from my perspective is the client requests have changed.

Our next two projects have a video/motion element and in fact one of the projects will never, ever go to the printed page and this is an ongoing good project that pays well.

This particular client wants the image to freeze and at a click of a button the model moves to show the garments front to back.  This is something that would be difficult to do with traditional still cameras and this is something no client would have asked for 4 years ago.

I don't know how well you follow advertising expenditures but internationally, recognized brands have moved a huge percentage of their dollars to online and social marketing.   In fact when you see the numbers of money spent dedicated print is about 4% of the market.

So, with that in mind, if any equipment company is going to move forward, they'd better read the tea leaves and see what is being shot, vs. what they think or hope is being shot.

Now as far as this Sinar thing, it's OK, but it looks to me like Sinar is just trying to find a way to make older designs viable in a new age and though I doubt seriously if I have a call for a view camera in my line of work, I do see the advantages of dedicated rise, fall and tilt lenses in still and motion.

There really is a new reality out there in the world of images for commerce and all of us that make our earnings from image creation need to recognize the changes and adapt.

That doesn't mean that this discussion or any discussion for that matter means that the artists involved want to see any format disappear.

Change to the cirumstances  . . . yes.

IMO

BC
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2010, 02:00:02 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
I don't believe any professional photographer predicts or wants to see an end to any professional piece of equipment.  

I also don't believe that anyone that pays their bills with a camera goes out and thinks "that'll be good enough".

The medium format dealers and makers have use the "that'll be good enough" mantra against their competition for way too long.  Instead of dissing one format, I strongly suggest making their own equipment more usable and I think you as well as anyone know what that means.

What I do know, at least from my perspective is the client requests have changed.

Our next two projects have a video/motion element and in fact one of the projects will never, ever go to the printed page and this is an ongoing good project that pays well.

This particular client wants the image to freeze and at a click of a button the model moves to show the garments front to back.  This is something that would be difficult to do with traditional still cameras and this is something no client would have asked for 4 years ago.

I don't know how well you follow advertising expenditures but internationally, recognized brands have moved a huge percentage of their dollars to online and social marketing.   In fact when you see the numbers of money spent dedicated print is about 4% of the market.

So, with that in mind, if any equipment company is going to move forward, they'd better read the tea leaves and see what is being shot, vs. what they think or hope is being shot.

Now as far as this Sinar thing, it's OK, but it looks to me like Sinar is just trying to find a way to make older designs viable in a new age and though I doubt seriously if I have a call for a view camera in my line of work, I do see the advantages of dedicated rise, fall and tilt lenses in still and motion.

There really is a new reality out there in the world of images for commerce and all of us that make our earnings from image creation need to recognize the changes and adapt.

That doesn't mean that this discussion or any discussion for that matter means that the artists involved want to see any format disappear.

Change to the cirumstances  . . . yes.

IMO

BC


I swear that every post of yours is about motion taking over photography. Don't you get bored of writing the same thing?
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bcooter
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2010, 02:06:53 PM »
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Quote from: JonathanBenoit
I swear that every post of yours is about motion taking over photography. Don't you get bored of writing the same thing?


http://jbenoitphotography.com/blog/?p=43
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JonathanBenoit
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2010, 02:28:03 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter

That's another post trying to make your point.
That is CGI animation and it has nothing to do with your theory of motion devouring photography. It is highlighting a photographic viewpoint of architecture. Both motion and still photography are represented.
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bcooter
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 02:39:49 PM »
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Quote from: JonathanBenoit
snip......theory of motion devouring photography. It is highlighting a photographic viewpoint of architecture. Both motion and still photography are represented

This is a silly conversation and I have no argument or willingness to prove any point.

I am also camera/brand/format agnostic.  I own them all and at times use them all.

I've trained and invested my adult life to be a professional "still" photographer, so honestly I am/was quite happy with shooting what I shot, for what I get paid, etc. etc.

I'm also not predicting anything, or trying to "prove" anything because the numbers speak for themselves.  4% of all advertising media is traditional print.

That number is not going to change upward, because it hasn't for a long, long time, but I'd love to see it in ways I can't and won't explain.

If your making your living in still photography for commerce and things are going well, then I applaud you.

BC
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CBarrett
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2010, 02:42:04 PM »
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Sometimes I find Cooter's omnipresence a little frightening.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2010, 03:04:25 PM »
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Sinar made a Hasselblad (V) adapter decades ago (I have one somewhere) and so you can put a 500 on your Sinar and any Hasselblad V system compatible MF digiback on that.

The wider throat of the Hasselblad gives you more movement... but on 66 you could still get problems... but it should work well with the smaller (645 and smaller) digibacks.

You can use shuttered lenses or a 200fc, or a Sinar lensboard shutter.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
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