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Author Topic: Intreresting Article on Art vs Science vs Craft  (Read 14259 times)
larsrc
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 03:17:44 PM »
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I think we can say that photography has thrown a spanner in the works. There's no longer much incentive for an artist to paint the accurate detail and perspective that many renaisance painters achieved, whether through the aid of lenses and mirrors or not.
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Not quite, there's been a movement of photorealism in painting, which has made some impressive stuff.  A painter has the freedom of moving stuff around and doing a subjective dynamic range.  But there's definitely been a number of areas where the "day job" of the great painters has been taken away by photography.

-Lars
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Ray
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2007, 07:17:52 PM »
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Not quite, there's been a movement of photorealism in painting, which has made some impressive stuff.  A painter has the freedom of moving stuff around and doing a subjective dynamic range.  But there's definitely been a number of areas where the "day job" of the great painters has been taken away by photography.

-Lars
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True. Whilst the invention of photography has definitely thrown a spanner in the works, it hasn't caused the extinction of all carefully crafted and realistic painting. In the 60's and 70's we had a re-emergence of Photorealism (prior to the invention of the camera we also had Photorealism but we couldn't call it that because we didn't have photos) and more recently we have a development of Photorealism called Hyperrealism which seems to have been heavily influenced by the so-called artificial reality created by the digital camera.

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And of course, the development of programs like Photoshop has enabled photographers to create the 'painterly' effect.
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Rob C
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2007, 07:33:18 AM »
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Always a problematic thing, the comparison of painting with photography, or the other way around, should you prefer.

From my own experience I find it somewhat difficult to hang paintings and photographs on the same wall; the same room seems to work, but certainly not the same wall. Likewise, there are further problems when trying to hang colour photographs beside b/w ones. In the first instance, even good photographs seem somewhat inferior to paint and in the case of the second condition, there is an undeniable lessening of the b/w power when in battle with colour. (But see the later paragraph.)

However, and a big however at that, when either medium is hung independently, it becomes a very different matter and the ordinary habit of grading images according to perceived value/quality flicks into play at once. Each set of groupings seems to be better off when shown on its own.

The best way of showing a mixed selection of colour and black and white photographs is, in my particular set of circumstances, to separate them by devices such as mirrors.

Subject matter too makes for either balance or otherwise; I have a mixture of nude (b/w) and landscape (colour) and thereīs no doubt that the nudes instigate instant comment from people not over familiar with the room. That includes female visitors, and none of the remarks so far have been negative. On the other hand, there has been no comment at all about the colour landscapes which means that they are either not worthy of nice words or are simply overpowered by the girls (on the wall).

Funny old world, but thatīs how it goes down!

Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2007, 09:56:31 AM »
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From my own experience I find it somewhat difficult to hang paintings and photographs on the same wall; the same room seems to work, but certainly not the same wall. Likewise, there are further problems when trying to hang colour photographs beside b/w ones. In the first instance, even good photographs seem somewhat inferior to paint and in the case of the second condition, there is an undeniable lessening of the b/w power when in battle with colour. (But see the later paragraph.)
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I can understand that, Rob. I think this would come under the category of presentation, design and interior decoration. Even selecting the appropriate framing for a painting or photo can be problematical as well as the precise positioning on the wall. I mean, you wouldn't hang half a dozen photos (or paintings) on your wall in a neat row, would you?

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....thereīs no doubt that the nudes instigate instant comment from people not over familiar with the room. That includes female visitors, and none of the remarks so far have been negative. On the other hand, there has been no comment at all about the colour landscapes which means that they are either not worthy of nice words or are simply overpowered by the girls (on the wall).

Personally, I generally find nudes quite eyecatching. I think you might be giving your landscapes a bit of unfair competition there.  
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Rob C
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2007, 10:37:32 AM »
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I can understand that, Rob. I think this would come under the category of presentation, design and interior decoration. Even selecting the appropriate framing for a painting or photo can be problematical as well as the precise positioning on the wall. I mean, you wouldn't hang half a dozen photos (or paintings) on your wall in a neat row, would you?
Personally, I generally find nudes quite eyecatching. I think you might be giving your landscapes a bit of unfair competition there. 
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Unfair competition: and that, Ray, is my huge problem lo these past few years.

The above from yourself might have been tongue-in-cheek or not - hard to tell on the web, as we discussed some posts ago - but it colours everything I do or do not do, mainly the latter. I find it very hard indeed to motivate myself into going out and looking for things to shoot. As Iīve indicated before, the cost of models of any worth is totally out of the non-commissioned range of possibilities for me (I have just received my copy of Sam HaskinsīCowboy Kate, the new edition of the book, and in the copy he relates that the pics were made in an environment where model agencies etc. did not exist. Yet, using friends and staff, he managed to come up with stunners!) and the few girls who might , just might be willing are not going to get asked.

Trouble is, having lashed out and bought this new HP B1980 and having discovered how damn good it is at printing black and whites, my desire to create new work runs high but not so the opportunity of doing much about it. I feel Iīve more or less exhausted my stock of old Kodachromes from which I have been deriving new framings etc. and there isnīt a lot further I can take that; apart from getting very bored at looking at so much old stuff, it didnīt take long to realise that commercially shot model material doesnīt equate with much in the way of a higher art, if youīll excuse the pretension.  This, of course, is nothing that a lottery win might not resolve for me...

Ciao - Rob C
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2007, 11:24:43 AM »
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Just as I enjoy walking in the foot hills of the Himalayas photographing mountain peaks and beautiful women selling their tapestry and  fine sculpted wares.
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So, just what were those women charging for their "fine sculpted wares"?
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Ray
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2007, 08:58:16 PM »
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So, just what were those women charging for their "fine sculpted wares"?
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It's always a matter of negotiation, Dark Penguin. Many of these mountain girls are very shy but hardworking, producing beads, bangles and colorful fabrics for the tourists.

[attachment=2707:attachment]
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Ray
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2007, 09:27:45 PM »
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Unfair competition: and that, Ray, is my huge problem lo these past few years.

... it colours everything I do or do not do, mainly the latter. I find it very hard indeed to motivate myself into going out and looking for things to shoot. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess I'm in a different situation, Rob. As an amateur I'm not motivated to take photos for profit. If I had to take photos to please a client, to make a living, I wouldn't know what to do.

Beware of the lotteries. Many a life has been ruined by a large win   .
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Rob C
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« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2007, 03:13:53 AM »
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I guess I'm in a different situation, Rob. As an amateur I'm not motivated to take photos for profit. If I had to take photos to please a client, to make a living, I wouldn't know what to do.

Beware of the lotteries. Many a life has been ruined by a large win   .
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Hi Ray

Perhaps unwittingly, you have just identified a major problem that haunts stock photography. My own years in it started out fine, extra pics from client shoots providing fodder for a variety of small clients without the means to pay for commissioned shoots.

However, as the stock agency I was with grew, it began to īdirectīone into shooting a variety of ideas which did not occur naturally to oneīs mind. This turned the entire thing into a very self-conscious exercise and, unlike a situation where you get to know a client personally, become able to judge what he wants, the effect of shooting blind was not good. It did not pay off for me.  I think stock has to be the result of something driven - the pics you want to take. Other than that, remove the pleasure and it becomes just financial risk of a very high order.

By the way, sexual tourism isnīt something to be encouraged, so donīt give Mr P your price-list!

Ciao - Rob C
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 03:35:45 AM by Rob C » Logged

Ray
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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2007, 10:15:39 PM »
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By the way, sexual tourism isnīt something to be encouraged, so donīt give Mr P your price-list!

Ciao - Rob C
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Rob,
What makes you think I have a price list? If I did, I'd certainly keep it a secret on this family oriented show. But I don't. As a confessed atheist, I'm as pure as the driven snow.
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Rob C
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2007, 05:20:37 AM »
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Rob,
What makes you think I have a price list? If I did, I'd certainly keep it a secret on this family oriented show. But I don't. As a confessed atheist, I'm as pure as the driven snow.
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Ray, do you find that the sides of the tongue get tooth induced sores after keeping it in cheek for so long? I was wondering if your purity matched my virginity, but it didnīt seem as if that would be a topic with legs...

Ciao - Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2007, 08:36:40 AM »
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Ray, do you find that the sides of the tongue get tooth induced sores after keeping it in cheek for so long? I was wondering if your purity matched my virginity, but it didnīt seem as if that would be a topic with legs...

Ciao - Rob C
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Rob,
It's true I don't have a list. I was trying to make the point that as an atheist I feel quite pure compared to some religious guys I've read about.

However, I admit I'll visit places I wouldn't otherwise go to, in search of an interesting photo.
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Ray
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2007, 05:56:13 AM »
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Why are you spreading viruses?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 07:54:28 AM by Chrissand » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2007, 06:36:15 AM »
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Why are you spreading viruses?
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Ray - I guess that it must have been the bit about a specific kind of tourism that triggered him off; after all, how better to catch something than by indulging in such adventures? And then, if you have the germ, why not emulate the little fox who had his tail cut off and try to encourage all the other little foxes to have theirs removed too?

I have often wondered about the mindset of people who create these internet problems: when they have the skills to do all that, why do they find it necessary to go bad? Surely there is enough good stuff that they can get into instead of causing a lot of innocent people much trouble, frustration and often damage. I suppose it all comes down to a poorly developed psyche, nobody loving them, bad breath.

Ciao - Rob C
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Ray
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2007, 07:07:57 AM »
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I have often wondered about the mindset of people who create these internet problems: when they have the skills to do all that, why do they find it necessary to go bad? Surely there is enough good stuff that they can get into instead of causing a lot of innocent people much trouble, frustration and often damage. I suppose it all comes down to a poorly developed psyche, nobody loving them, bad breath.

Ciao - Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My sentiments exactly. Such people must be fighting their own war against an imaginary foe. All they succeed in doing is being parasites on the economy.
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