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Author Topic: 4800 upgrade imminenet?  (Read 7490 times)
Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2006, 02:38:59 AM »
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Brian, what I recall hearing ColorByte tell us is that they DELETED Yellow for the B&W, not added it.


Yes, true. I meant Epson had the Y, but ColorByte used the opposite ie M & C. This seemed odd to me ie you need to need to go up to get something but someone else gets it by climbing down. Both start from the same point. 

The 4000 was not a Phatte solution - people complained like h**l about gloss differential and bronzing with 4000 prints done on non-matte media; from what I understand, this is why they decided to go for the MK or PK approach on the 4800, once they decided to produce the up-grade at about the same price point as the 4000.

True , me too. It did enable switching from matte to gloss or/and vice versa without wasting heaps if ink.

Now, if Canon has resolved this issue with more inks at the same price point, either there is something else their machines don't do, or they have one-up on Epson. Will be interesting to see once we know more.

Canon linearisation has been a problem in the past. New Canon printers were expected last year, so perhaps the extra time has gone into something that a pro might use. We'll see. Then they might bring out a big mother. That could bring the ink price down.
Cheers
Brian
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gryffyn
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2006, 09:33:00 AM »
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Canon just announced a 12 colour (yes a full dozen!) 17" pro printer.  Press release on DPR can be found here:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022405canonipf5000.asp

That makes an announcement of a 4800 upgrade even more likely in my opinion.  If not next week at PMA, then sometime this spring or summer probably.
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.....Andrzej
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2006, 10:13:37 AM »
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Gryffyn, HP is also announcing new stuff. The contest for the pro printing market is growing, which is great for us consumers - more competition and more choice. But you can't necessarily assume that one company operates simply in reaction to what the next guy is doing. They all know what the market wants - or they create needs in the market, and they work in parallel to provide their own solutions. So it is an on-going horse race, and new models come out in their own time. Maybe Epson will produce a 4800 up-grade within the next 6 months or so, but it won't necessarily be in response to Canon's - it will be because they are ready with something they think is better than the model they are replacing and they have assessed the commercial aspect of market timing.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
gryffyn
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2006, 10:32:19 AM »
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But you can't necessarily assume that one company operates simply in reaction to what the next guy is doing.

True, there are other factors at work, but it's likely that Epson knew or had predictions of what Canon just announced and what is coming from HP.  Don't need much of a crystal ball for that one.    Which means they've been working on the next printer model for some time now.

However, I don't entirely agree with your comments. Market share in a product segment that looks like it's headed towards commoditization and heavy competition (which the high end print market is rapidly moving towards with Canon/HP's recent moves) is virtually everything.  If you don't protect your market share, which Epson has right now but is coming under pressure, then typically you're playing a losing hand.

I think Epson, as the market segment leader, will be forced to respond in reaction to Canon and HP attacking their high end printer market in earnest.  Sooner rather than later.

That's the way of the high-tech world.

Time will prove which one of us is right.  And if it's me, it won't take much time at all.  
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.....Andrzej
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2006, 11:02:41 AM »
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We're splitting hairs - of course they are all watching eachother, and I have no doubt they are all working as feverishly as they can to stay ahead of the pack and either protect or gain market share. I think we're agreed they are working in parallel and any one of them start working on the next model either very soon after or most likely before release of the current one, and when the technical/commercial times comes to release the next printer they will. More grist for the mill.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
gryffyn
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 12:06:09 PM »
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Well...doesn't look like Epson will be announcing any 4800 tweaks at PMA, or they would have already done so.

So now the question is if they'll wait till Photokina this fall or if we'll hear something sooner than that?

Any bets? ;-)
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.....Andrzej
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 12:50:55 PM »
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No bets. I don't have enough data to measure the odds!

But they're in a bit of a bind. (1) Competition is lapping at their market share (good thing). (2) They took a beating for issuing the 4800 so soon after the 4000 because alot of people think only about sunk costs and not about incremental benefits - you need a real forward-looking mentality not to go bananas with this business and many people aren't there yet, so there is an acceptability issue - which didn't restrain them in the past so maybe they'll ignore it in future. (3) The next printer really MUST solve the ink switching business, because with these super new coated papers hitting the market people will want this capability without having to buy ImagePrint, and we don't know how long it will take them to finishing cracking that issue - which surprises me, because it didn't take ColorByte all that long to produce Phatte Black. I guess what I'm saying here - if they don't have a chemical solution that can be accommodated within eight cartridges they are into a whole major re-design and re-tooling of everything.

It will be interesting to see what and when.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
gryffyn
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2006, 12:55:36 PM »
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It will be interesting to see what and when.

Digital technology in photography does have it's downsides, and one of those is more rapid product cycles and obsolescence.  So it goes...anyone in the IT business is used to that.

Reminds me of the Chinese proverb/curse:  "May you live in interesting times".  
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2006, 01:59:33 PM »
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Andzej, objectively I don't think there's much of a "downside", but subjectively there can be. It's dynamic and exciting, and the creative potential and quality just keeps growing by leaps and bounds. The downside aspect depends on one's approach to it, and to avoid it being a downer requires a very deliberate strategy about when and why to be at the bleeding edge of this or that.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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