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Author Topic: Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl  (Read 11407 times)
Brian Gilkes
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« on: April 03, 2006, 06:25:34 PM »
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The brief review just posted by Michael on Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl had a number of interesting aspects and some very important information gaps that will no doubt be filled in a further report.
A Dmax of 2.88 is remarkable and would be the highest ever, with Museo Silver Rag being reported at around 2.45 and Ansel Adams best around 2.3. Could you confirm this Michael?
The alpha cellulose with Hahnemuhle papers means "wood" . I would note here most Hahnemuhle papers , notably excluding Photo Rag) are wood based, which disturbs some clients .Personally I would like to know where the wood comes from , but consider the cotton industry in this country anyway, to be probably a greater environmental disaster than much of the timber industry. Museo Silver Rag is a cotton based paper. Demons everywere.
The 105% white would be due to optical brighteners (OBs)not incorporated into the Crane paper. There still seems to be much concern with the archival properties of OBs. Whiteners are also in the PhotoRag paper. I have had no problem with Photo Rag over a two year period but have with other papers including some Epson papers. My tests are very rough however and in no way comparative with Henry Wilhelms. It would seem on past record it is unlikely Wilhelm will give us a comparative report on the competitive Crane and Hahnemuhle papers.
We have no way of knowing what OBs Hahnemuhle are now using.
More vital parts of a more comprehensive report will be an evaluation of colour gamut and linearity, and the usefulness or otherwise of profiles supplied by the manufacturers and third parties  such as ColorByte and Bill Atkinson.
I'm still waiting on my first delivery of Silver Rag, and look forward to testing the Fine Art Pearl too.
Cheers
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Madness
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 02:11:56 AM »
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I'm still stuck on Hahnemulah  OK, I understand there's no umlaut in english but that doesn't mean you can change the word completely into something that doesn't sound even remotely similar to the original?!

From wikipedia:
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When typing German, if umlaut letters are not available, the proper way is to replace them with the underlying vowel and a following <e>. So, for example, "Schröder" becomes "Schroeder".

Michael please correct this because it sounds incredibly silly. Hahnemuehle would be the right way to do it.
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2006, 02:46:42 AM »
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I'm still stuck on Hahnemulah  OK, I understand there's no umlaut in english but that doesn't mean you can change the word completely into something that doesn't sound even remotely similar to the original?!

From wikipedia:
Michael please correct this because it sounds incredibly silly. Hahnemuehle would be the right way to do it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're thinking of Hahnemühle, the German paper company. This new paper is from an Afghan startup and made from yak's wool.
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2006, 05:38:56 PM »
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When I started this thread I resisted the temptation to refer to the Afgan solution. I was actually contemplating an Iranian entry into the market. I am still a little concerned that the quoted maximum density may have been subject to a similar translational variance in the German language. By the way Hahnemuhle is somewhat more accurately translated as "Cock Mill". On this matter I will not comment further. I look forward to a comprehensive report on these new products. If I can get the stuff here I will conduct and publish my own.
Cheers
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au

PS I'm sure there must be an appropriate exploit of The Incomparable Mullah Nasrudin from which we would all learn much on these matters.
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Stephen Best
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2006, 07:13:36 PM »
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I look forward to a comprehensive report on these new products. If I can get the stuff here I will conduct and publish my own.

Well, this new "Pearl" should be easier to get here. Reading around, I gather Crane's Silver Rag suffers the same problem as most pebble papers, that is it looks like crap with side lighting. I'd be interested to try the new "Pearl" but wish they'd pulled the OBAs ... there's no real need with today's refinements in paper manufacturing. Though maybe the new substrate will reduce out-gassing. Obviously quite a few paper manufacturers think this class of coating on paper is going to be the next big thing.

Cheers.
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pfigen
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2006, 02:31:11 PM »
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"I gather Crane's Silver Rag suffers the same problem as most pebble papers, that is it looks like crap with side lighting."

After getting a 24" roll of Silver Rag the week before last, I absolutely concur with the above. I have to say that I haven't been more disappointed in the hype of a new product in a long time. For Crane to claim that their paper has the same surface texture as an air dried "F" surface fiber based black and white paper only suggests that they have spent precious little time in a real darkroom printing the real stuff. MSR is much shinier than I ever imagined it would be and has WAY more surface texture - almost like an E surface. The company I bought it from claims I'm the only one to not be 100% satisfied, but I'm sure I won't be the last.
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2006, 03:51:03 PM »
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Outgassing should also be included in the more thorough review of this type of product. It seems to attain high DMax and wide gamut as much ink as possible must be retained on the surface. Crane, apparently, use up to six seperate coatings on Silver Rag. Such coating techniques usually prevent the humidicants in the ink, that prevent nozzle blocks, from being absorbed into the paper , leadind to outgassing , which is a real problem when many art prints are sealed in frames immediately after printing.
High surface ink retention would contribute to the reported shiny , textured surface. As far as that goes, it will be a matter of what you and your clients like, and usually how it looks behind glass. Shinyness should not be a problem with high spot gallery lighting, that will best show off the positive attributes.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Stephen Best
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2006, 04:42:11 PM »
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Shinyness should not be a problem with high spot gallery lighting, that will best show off the positive attributes.
Yes, but I also think that anyone purchasing a print from the gallery should have a reasonable expectation that it displays well in their home, generally with less than optimal lighting. I spent some time looking at how RC (lustre, semimatte) prints I did looked framed on the wall and was quite surprised how poorly they came up ... washed out shadows, ugly flat whites and a surface that worked against detail. They looked great under my bright 5K viewing lights though!

These new papers should have better hand-feel and, provided they don't scratch easily, could be ideal for prints to be handled. I reserve my opinion on whether they'll be worth framing until I actually get to try them!
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pfigen
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2006, 05:00:28 PM »
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I'm having a couple framed up right now to see how much the shiny surface texture is mitigated. It may be okay in the end, but I really don't like the feel of the bare print even if the image quality is very good.
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Wills
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2006, 04:52:42 PM »
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I see FujiHunt have now added a Fine Art Pearl paper 290 gsm do you think it is a contender against the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl?
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 05:04:55 PM »
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I've now made a few prints on the Silver Rag and I personally really like it. The sheen does not worry me but I look forward to comparing it to Hahnemuhle and Innova  products. Thank's Michael  for the revised Dmax data. The read DMax from Michael is not very good, but my blacks look excellent on B&W and colour. I haven't read them yet, but hope to have a full profile in a couple of days. The colours are very luminous and have better separation and purity than the gloss papers I have been trying. So far I am impressed. This whole class of paper is a great move, and everyone will have their favourites. Wide colour gamut and deep blacks seem stuck with shine. The fine edge will be held by the best coatings used with the best inks. Good images help!
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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eyedoc
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2006, 02:58:45 PM »
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Does anyone know when this paper (FineArt Pearl) will be available in the Toronto area?
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drew
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2006, 05:19:05 AM »
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I see FujiHunt have now added a Fine Art Pearl paper 290 gsm do you think it is a contender against the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl?

Since FujiHunt sell own-branded Hahnemühle papers, it is very likely that this is Hahnemühle paper. I am going to write a review comparison of some of these papers for my website. I have found that Innova Fibagloss is actually the same paper as Davinci Fibre Gloss and the same paper as Fotospeed DWFB Platinum Gloss, which just goes to prove that there really are not that many paper makers. The Innova/Davinci/Fotospeed paper is made in the EU. I am still awaiting a sample of the Crane paper.
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britzus
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2006, 07:04:54 AM »
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Since FujiHunt sell own-branded Hahnemühle papers, it is very likely that this is Hahnemühle paper. I am going to write a review comparison of some of these papers for my website. I have found that Innova Fibagloss is actually the same paper as Davinci Fibre Gloss and the same paper as Fotospeed DWFB Platinum Gloss, which just goes to prove that there really are not that many paper makers. The Innova/Davinci/Fotospeed paper is made in the EU. I am still awaiting a sample of the Crane paper.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63915\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What about the "Permajet Fibre Base Gloss", is it the same paper as Innova ?

"HM FineArt Pearl" should not be available until end of May, according to the latest press release by Hahnemuehle on their website (dt. 24-04-06).

As far as I know only Hahnemuehle, Crane own a paper mill and do their own coating of the base material. Innova is a trading company and has to buy at different paper mills and another company has to do the coating. This may explain why sometimes the Innova batches are somewhat inconsistent in quality.
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scho37
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2006, 11:16:47 AM »
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I see FujiHunt have now added a Fine Art Pearl paper 290 gsm do you think it is a contender against the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think this is the Fuji-Hunt fine art paper that is probably closest to the Hahnemuhle product (same paper?).
[a href=\"http://tinyurl.com/k2tdk]http://tinyurl.com/k2tdk[/url]
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scho37
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2006, 11:58:20 AM »
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I think this is the Fuji-Hunt fine art paper that is probably closest to the Hahnemuhle product (same paper?).
http://tinyurl.com/k2tdk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63935\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just called Fuji-Hunt about this product.  Not available yet but it comes from InnovaArt Ltd. so I assume it is the same as Innova F-Type Gloss.  I've used the latter and it is excellent - much closer to the look of an air dried glossy silver FB paper than the Silver rag product.
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thompsonkirk
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2006, 11:55:21 PM »
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When people report on how these papers look to them, could you please be specific about:

--color or BW?

--which inkset you're using?

--what driver (Epson or RIP)?  

--what profile (from the paper company; custom; ImagePrint)?

I assume the Media setting will be Luster, though Crane says you can also use Glossy or Semi-Matte (their profile-maker says the lookup tables are the same for all 3 media settings??).  

I've seen the new Innova paper printed in BW with the older Ultrachrome inkset (4000) via IP, & the bronzing was severe.  I was surprised that MK looked a little better than PK.  

I trust, or anyhow hope, it looks better with K3 inks, for which the new papers were supposedly designed?
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scho37
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2006, 07:20:52 AM »
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When people report on how these papers look to them, could you please be specific about:

--color or BW?

--which inkset you're using?

--what driver (Epson or RIP)? 

--what profile (from the paper company; custom; ImagePrint)?

I assume the Media setting will be Luster, though Crane says you can also use Glossy or Semi-Matte (their profile-maker says the lookup tables are the same for all 3 media settings??). 

I've seen the new Innova paper printed in BW with the older Ultrachrome inkset (4000) via IP, & the bronzing was severe.  I was surprised that MK looked a little better than PK. 

I trust, or anyhow hope, it looks better with K3 inks, for which the new papers were supposedly designed?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64058\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I print BW with Innova F-Type using MIS K4 inks (minus LLK) in an Epson 4000, driven by the ColorBurst X-Photo RIP with a custom gray profile for neutral BW prints.  No bronzing.
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thompsonkirk
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2006, 05:13:37 PM »
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Back to the topic of Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl:

I was surprised that it's listed on the Lexjet site as coming in rolls with a 2" core.  I e-mailed to see if this is a typo & was assured it's correct.  (All the papers I use come with 3" cores, & I didn't even know I had a 2" option - but I was assured that I do.)  

Why wrap a 39' roll of paper on so small a core?  I'm concerned about curling if a paper of this weight is rolled up to 2".  I'd guess the curling would be extreme, & I hope someone will report about this as soon as they have some to try.
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