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Author Topic: Monitor recommendations  (Read 37405 times)
marc.s
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« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2006, 12:51:44 PM »
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Pom or anyone else - do you have some recommendations for decent online stores in the UK I can order a colour calibrator from?
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2006, 03:11:26 PM »
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amazon might not be a bad idea, www.warehouseexpress.co.uk otherwise for good prices. if you're in Europe then Germany might be a cheaper option, worth looking into.

I've gone back to the original calibration I made with the spyder at native and it seems to be the best for the blacks all round though the colour is slightly cold, I still have tweaking to be done. I can't measure the brightness, it could well be that the darkening of the screen through the video card software post calibration is the culprit, that said I need my screen to give me accurate results at print brightness, how I've always had my CRT set up with great results.

Does anyone know whether any of the other calibration options give better control over software darkening to 'x' level of brightness, i.e. to taste, but with accurate colour? I've lowered my screen to 90% according to the vid card software with the hardware lowered as far as possible. At present I have to calibrate with everything set to default and darken afterwards.

The problem is that there are no 'try before you buy' options with calibration devices. I could do with one that gives me the above option, i.e. cailbrates according to a user specified brightness level. Can anyone help (especially you Andrew, you're the authority on this are you not?), should I buy a software solution (color-something I think it's called) or look for a different software/hardware solution?

Thanks
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2006, 03:14:01 PM »
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Of course this is starting to get rather expensive!

I've downloaded the demo of color eyes display (software) which was reviewed here, I'll see how it goes assuming it works with the spyder 2.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 03:27:36 PM by pom » Logged

marc.s
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« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2006, 04:43:44 PM »
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Hm, it appears to be cheaper to buy from the US and have it shipped.. I'm leaning towards the Eye-One 2 myself.

It's getting expensive for me as well  

You could try asking in the Rob Galbraith forum if you don't get help here with your calibration issues..
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2006, 05:01:30 PM »
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Well it doesn't work with the spyder, great.

I wish you could try them out and find out what is the best one, it's not a cheap expense to find out it doesn't do what I need.

Do you not have to pay import from the US?
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marc.s
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« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2006, 06:26:03 PM »
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Sorry to hear you still have problems  There must be plenty other with the Spyder2 and Apple display though, so you should be able to find info somewhere..

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Do you not have to pay import from the US?
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Yeah, but some companies are nice to mark down the price written on the package so it's not snatched by customs
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 06:26:27 PM by marc.s » Logged
Julian Love
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« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2006, 08:24:14 AM »
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Cross posting from another thread as I think it is useful.

I recently came across this UK retailer with useful info on LCD monitors and colour accuracy versus price trade offs: http://shop.colourconfidence.com/section.php?xSec=155

They also sell calibrators etc. In fact I think I actually bought my own Spyder from them a few years back.

Julian
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marc.s
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2006, 08:55:59 AM »
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Thanks for the link Julian, I might buy from them.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2006, 01:05:15 PM »
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interesting, keep in mind us brits that the prices are before vat!

I am now getting almost perfect color, contrast and brightness from my ACD and am happy with it. It took an evening of making custom curves in the video driver for the luminosity but it was worth it. Although the desktop looks a bit weird, the photos are a perfect match from the LCD to the calibrated CRT sitting next to it. Thank you Monaco! I've also found just how much I have to adjust the screen brightness of the CRT to match ambient in comparison to the LCD which has needed no tweaks at all. Admittedly this is is a room going from totally dark to merely dimly lit, but the CRT still needs adjusting where the LCD doesn't.
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marc.s
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« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2006, 01:25:38 PM »
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Good to hear everything is working now. The whole custom curve fit sounds messy though, like it defies the whole point of a hardware calibrator. So are you happy with the display? Also, what brightness did you end up using in cd/m2?
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2006, 03:08:31 PM »
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G-d knows!
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2006, 04:33:17 PM »
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This is a tough time to buy a display. I would either spend huge bucks for something like the NEC LED Wide Gamut or go real cheap and wait for the technology to improve. CCFL LCDs are going to go the way of CRTs in a year or three when some of the killer new technologies (OLED, SED) hit the streets. We'll be laughing (or crying) at those super expensive LCDs using Fluorescents.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, this worries me - just a bit. My trusty CRT is starting to snap at me, which makes me think one day it will just die. So I've been casting about reading the usual stuff from the usual people and places, and so far the optimal combination of money and technology for me looks like a LaCie 321G or its NEC match. Are you saying this will be obsolete within the next 12~36 months? Could you describe a bit what you know about the improvements coming down the road? There are used CRTs identical to mine available on eBay I could live with if it is really worth the wait when the time comes.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2006, 07:59:01 PM »
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After what I went through to get a similar picture from my ACD and considering the cost of these LCD's, if you are happy with your CRT, you can probably buy another 10 of them for the price of a new LCD and with less hassle. Might well be worth the wait.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2006, 08:30:08 PM »
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Pom, yes, I may well wait if I can without sacrificing workflow till then. Did you check-out the LaCie 321G before you bought the ACD? I'm wondering whether the kind of trouble you've experienced is generic to LCDs (i.e. they're all trouble regardless of make or price) or brand-related.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2006, 07:48:15 AM »
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It appears he had two kinds of trouble - one being a dodgy profiler, and the other being the need to adjust curves for the video drivers. The latter is the bit that worries me - I simply don't understand the point of using a hardware profiler if you have to adjust curves manually afterwards anyway.

And to add insult to injury I've run into issues with the NEC I'm looking to buy..
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2006, 08:48:08 AM »
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marc.s I agree with you that in principle it should not be necessary to introduce curve adjustments to a properly calibrated and profiled system - but hey - if it solved pom's problem, so be it and what works works. However, it is primary evidence of technical issues. Which raises the subject of your NEC. I'm interested, because there is a model of the NEC which is supposed to be the Father of the LaCie 321G. Is this the model you are having trouble with? Could you please explain what the problems are?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2006, 11:42:51 AM »
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marc.s I agree with you that in principle it should not be necessary to introduce curve adjustments to a properly calibrated and profiled system - but hey - if it solved pom's problem, so be it and what works works. However, it is primary evidence of technical issues. Which raises the subject of your NEC. I'm interested, because there is a model of the NEC which is supposed to be the Father of the LaCie 321G. Is this the model you are having trouble with? Could you please explain what the problems are?
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Oh, it's great that pom got it to work! I just really dislike this whole colour management business and the more complicated it gets the worse (for me at least).

I think the LaCie 321 is the same as the NEC 2180ux, but I haven't checked.

The NEC series has just been upgraded from the 80s to the 90s, so now it's 1990, 2090, 2190 for the respective sizes.

My problem is that I've learnt from basICCare (who are behind basICColor) that they no longer support hardware profiling of the NEC monitors and further - worse - that NEC does not support hardware profiling of these monitors unless they are bought as part of the SpectraView package. Even though the monitors are the same, they change the firmware in the SpectraView versions to allow for hardware profiling (with their own software). Incidentally, the software that is used with Spectraview is an OEM version of basICColor, only with NEC drivers.

I have all that information from basICCare people because NEC has sent me from person to person without providing me with any useful info.

The 90-series SpectraView versions are not available, and the older Spectraview series is way overpriced over here.

I'm still looking at getting the 2090uxi and just use regular calibration (probably Monaco Optix Pro, maybe I'll try basICColor software). Unless I find some better monitor solution anyway.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2006, 11:46:13 AM by marc.s » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2006, 11:53:35 AM »
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marc.s - thank you ever so much for that information. It puts NEC monitors OFF THE TABLE for me. I would not buy a product that locks-in calibration and profiling options to what may well be second-best and expensive solutions. Whatever I buy needs to support open-sourced equipment and software for colour management. I am quite sure the LaCie 321G allows this, because I know that ColorEyes Display and the Monaco OptixXR/DPT94 colorimeter can be used with this monitor. To the best of my knowledge this combination of hardware and software has been very well received in professional circles.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2006, 12:26:35 PM »
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marc.s - thank you ever so much for that information. It puts NEC monitors OFF THE TABLE for me. I would not buy a product that locks-in calibration and profiling options to what may well be second-best and expensive solutions. Whatever I buy needs to support open-sourced equipment and software for colour management. I am quite sure the LaCie 321G allows this, because I know that ColorEyes Display and the Monaco OptixXR/DPT94 colorimeter can be used with this monitor. To the best of my knowledge this combination of hardware and software has been very well received in professional circles.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But does ColorEyes support hardware profiling through DDC of the LaCie 321? I haven't checked ColorEyes much because I read that it's a rather complicated to use.

The thing is, that if the LaCie 321 is the same as the NEC 2180 then ColorEyes will probably support that the same way (but you should of course ask first). And the 2180 is a bit cheaper than the LaCie.

It's really confusing because hardware profiling of the monitor is hard to find information on with the various profiling kits, and then NEC pulling a firmware stunt so only certain models are 'allowed' to be profiled as well only makes it all more complicated.

Btw, the SpectraView versions are just the monitor plus profiling software (basICColor with NEC driver) plus a hood (which costs US $150 separately!). So for people wanting the whole deal who can get a good price it's fine - I would take that. But as far as I can tell they haven't released these SpectraView versions for the 90-series, and even if they had it would be too expensive for me to buy here.

Meanwhile, the basICColor guy told me that regular software profiling of the 2090uxi still gives good results. Here is the bit he told me about that:

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Hi Marc,

I know these are not good news. But this is NEC policy.
But if you preset a 2090uxi to the aimed color temperature and the aimed
gamma-value (around 2.4 for L*) than you can reach nearly the same
reproduction quality like a hardware calibrated SpectraView 2090.

There are no mayor difference between the SQUID2 and the Optix XR.
The SQUID2 has a diffusion plate to measure ambient light and the XR not.
But the XR is a bit more precise in measuring dark tints. And the XR is a
bit slower.


With best regards.
Tim
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2006, 01:29:10 PM »
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marc.s, YES - that is one of the key features of ColorEyes Display - profiling through DDC if the monitor and the video card allow it. NO ColorEyes Display is not difficult to use. Not much different from any other calibration software in terms of ease of use, and in fact particularly user-friendly for up-dating the profile. I wouldn't revert to software profiling. The whole idea of buying a state-of-the-art Monaco Colorimeter is to do it properly.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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