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Author Topic: Monitor recommendations  (Read 35723 times)
marc.s
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« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2006, 01:56:12 PM »
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I just sent ColorEyes an email asking whether they support DDC in the LaCie 321 and the NEC 90-series (non Spectraview).. getting so much conflicting information (I just read elsewhere that the 321 does not support DDC, but that was no official source).

The thing about ColorEyes being difficult to use was from the Dry Creek review: http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor...ation_tools.htm
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2006, 02:22:30 PM »
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marc.s - great - let us know what Integrated Color Corp tells you. My understanding is that the issue is the reverse - the question isn't whether the software supports DDC (it does) - the issue is whether the monitor is DDC-capable - anyhow, either way I.C.C. or LaCie themselves will have the answer to that question, which I hope and expect is YES - but let us see what they come back with.

I have been using ColorEyes Display for quite a while; Dry Creek aside, I've worked with it rather easily. The only issue I had was some lack of clarity in the instructions the first time around, but I.C.C. cleared that up pretty quickly and it was smooth sailing thereafter.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2006, 03:07:34 PM »
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I'll keep you posted on the DDC info. I haven't seen anywhere in Europe to buy ColorEyes, the shop I was looking at buying from doesn't have it - http://shop.colourconfidence.com/index.php

Chromix in the US sell it, but they were difficult when it came to shipping, so I'd prefer buying this in Europe. Between finding a place to get a good display for a reasonable amount to getting the right profiler for a reasonable amount this is the most complicated shopping I've ever done! I've corresponded with a dozen companies and shops so far..  
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marc.s
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« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2006, 03:15:18 PM »
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I just sent LaCie a note regarding the 321 for good measure, although I can't afford that monitor myself..
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2006, 03:25:45 PM »
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marc.s, B&H Photo-Video (New York City) ship world-wide and they carry a full range of LaCie and NEC monitors. I live in Canada, buy from them frequently and they have been totally reliable. (www.bhphotovideo.com). They also sell the Monaco Optix XR and its software. Better is to buy the ColorEyes Display bundled with Xrite DPT94 (same equipment, better software) - you can order directly from them and they ship to anywhere also. The problem with buying this kind of stuff on-line is that you should be sure about what you want, because returns unrelated to defects could be a pain.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2006, 05:08:15 PM »
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I'm buying the monitor here (Denmark) - no way I'm buying it without the ability to return it if I'm not happy (which would be the case buying from other countries). But the  profiling system I'm probably getting from somewhere else, even though it's taking a risk too as you say. The problem with buying from the US is that it's likely to be held up in customs, and that can sometimes take weeks on top of the shipping time..  

Once I have figured everything out I'd like to get all the stuff so I can use it and not wait around forever

I have bought from B&H before, would love to have a shop like that here!
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marc.s
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« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2006, 05:24:55 PM »
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Reply from the ColorEyes people - good news for the LaCie:


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ColorEyes Display supports ddc on the LaCie right now. The issue with 
the NEC is whether or not they are willing to provide the sdk for 
software support. As is indicated by the recent postings it appears 
that they are no longer willing to provide that information to Color 
Solutions DK. We have never had access to the data.

Jack
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2006, 05:50:18 PM »
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marc.s - you got exactly the answer from Jack I thought you would get. If I need to replace my monitor soon, which could happen, that information would confirm my decision for LaCie - a few hundred dollars more, but seen over the expected years for using the equipment it doesn't matter.

Yes, I wish we had a B&H in Toronto as well, but I'm sure we both understand the B&H phenominon is pure New York! Their internet operation is huge, but I guess keeping a place that in business still needs the critical mass of a city like NY.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2006, 05:55:37 PM »
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Yeah, the LaCie sounds like a good choice for you - it's just outside my budget. For some reason there's a huge gap (at least in prices here) between 20" and 21" even though it's the same resolution and everything.

I'm not sure how much of B&H is internet sale, but I would think it's quite a bit. So it should be possible for other countries with access to large markets to do something similar (Germany or England over here for instance, but there's nothing like B&H or Adorama in Europe).
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2006, 06:19:50 PM »
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You are right - it should be possible - but it doesn't happen - that is what I meant by "pure New York". The U.S. got onto the concept of huge scale in retailing that very few other places in the world can rival. It's partly the culture and partly the economic framework.

It's true, the LaCie is a big bite financially. So I'm waiting till I really need to replace what I'm using - a good CRT, but won't last too much longer.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2006, 07:11:25 PM »
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If you can pick up cheap second hand CRTs like the one you have may I ask why you are considering the LaCie?

Personally I can't get a decent second hand CRT here, and the only one that's still for sale is rather expensive. Since I would also really like a flicker free display and the ability to pivot and really don't have room for a 21" monitor the option is pretty clear for me.. I'm pretty excited about going from this 17" (16" actual view) 1024x768 to 20" 1600x1200! Just need to get the right one first time around. My current monitor dates back to 1998 and I was hoping it would last longer!
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2006, 08:32:09 PM »
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marc, yes, I can buy a used P992 on eBay for anything from 50 dollars up to 400, but it's flying blind - don't really know what will come through the door. Like buying a used car without the certification.

I think we need to simply face the fact that high quality CRT technology is history, and get used to the new world of LCDs and beyond.

Also, I spend alot of time in front of a monitor and numerous people have confirmed over again that the LCDs are much healthier for one's eyesight.

The only reason why I might go for a used CRT as a temporary solution is that we are now hearing there are new technologies on the way that will also make these expensive LCDs obsolete. But I would like to hear more about that from the people who know.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2006, 07:06:52 AM »
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Karl Lang's post in the other thread mentions 1-3 years before the new tech. I'm not going to wait several years with a subpar display. So much technology is transition anyway, we usually know that when we buy it - like almost everything in digital cameras (at least until recently).

I got another reply from Integrated Color:


Quote
Basiccolor had an inside deal with NEC that we did not. They have 
never given us any info. NEC, at least in this country has their own 
version of calibration software that is not Basiccolor. You know, not 
having ddc is not the end of the world. You can make very good 
profiles without it. Is it better, yes, but by how much. Hard to say. 
If you are calibrating to D50 it will probably matter alot. If you 
are calibrating to native or around 6500 it will matter a whole lot 
less. I would not be surprised if the have different software 
implementations on different monitors. Almost everyone else does so 
why not them. We have built in special software for many monitors on 
the market because ddc is never just ddc.

Jack

Since I'll be running 6500 I'm probably just settling for this. I still have not received a reply from NEC about other stuff though. They really have rotten pre-sales help.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2006, 07:49:38 AM »
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marc, unless my present monitor by some miracle keeps chugging along, I wouldn't want to wait three years before improving my monitor either, but one year may be worth it - depending on what is coming, and we (anyhow I) know very little about that. You are right about the technology business - it is a treadmill - an evolving crap-shoot; the only rule is that whatever we buy today will be obsolete tomorrow and tomorrow keeps coming faster and faster.

As for NEC, if their pre-sales support is crummy, just think of what their technical support may be like.

I haven't bought a LaCie monitor yet, but their tech support people here in Toronto have been first-class responding to my questions about various technicalities I have raised with them. This gives me alot of confidence that I would get the support I need if I buy it and something messes-up thereafter. Yes, more expensive, but just looking through all the NEC issues that surfaced in this thread, maybe there are reasons.

That said, you know, this is also an issue of money versus risk, perception and perfectionism. When I really need to get down to a final decision about it, I'll want to see what the monitor displays relative to some test images before I buy. Then comparing brands, how much quality difference, how much risk you will need tech support etc., etc. There must be many people with NEC monitors using their calibration/profiling getting un-interrupted performance and from their perception fully satisfactory results from it. So the chances are the way you are leaning may work out just fine at lower cost. I think it is one of these areas where eyes-on and hands-on pre-purchase research is imporant, but nothing is certain in life, is it?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2006, 09:35:08 AM »
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I expect nothing from NEC support whatsoever

But in this country we have a mandatory 24 months warranty, so I can send it to the shop for repair if something happens. Further, we have 2 weeks full return after buying online, which will be my testing period since I cannot get to see it anywhere around here.

I do expect it to be good. So far I have only read good things about the NEC 80-series, and incidentally your LaCie 321 is also a NEC 2180 - only you get the DDC!

It's very different from when I bought my last monitor, I looked at loads of them in the shops that I had seen reviews of. But I cannot find any shop that sells these high end displays anymore, it's all mainstream stuff.

I don't mind that tech is constantly progressing either - I think it's wonderful. It's just a matter of finding something you are happy with and then choosing that. That's always what I've done and I don't recall regretting having bought something because it became obsolete later on. Rather, I will research quite a bit before I buy, but then once I have bought it I don't worry about it at all, I just enjoy it. If I bought some expensive tech on impulse and was unhappy with it I would be annoyed though, because I can't just replace it next month.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2006, 09:55:37 AM »
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My approach too, otherwise it would drive us all crazy.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
marc.s
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« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2006, 11:04:21 AM »
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Just quoting the reply I got from LaCie if anyone is curious:

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"This message was sent from support@lacie.com"

Marc,
Our 321 monitor does provide for hardware calibration through DDC. But
we can make no guarantee that third-party calibration software will
work.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2006, 11:10:58 AM »
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Thanks marc. Fair enough - they won't vouch for 3rd party software; but other information I've heard here in Toronto indicates that ColorEyes Display works on that monitor. It would be good to get the views of anyone else who has actually done it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Julian Love
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« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2006, 03:19:43 AM »
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Quote
I'm not sure how much of B&H is internet sale, but I would think it's quite a bit. So it should be possible for other countries with access to large markets to do something similar (Germany or England over here for instance, but there's nothing like B&H or Adorama in Europe).
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's not quite B&H, but there is an excellent online retailer in the UK who I use for a lot of photographic equipment [a href=\"http://www.warehouseexpress.com/]Warehouse Express[/url]. They have a huge range of equipment, competitive prices (for the UK) and excellent service - you can return items you don't like with no questions asked. They also sell NEC, LaCie and Eizo monitors, colour calibration devices etc. Well worth a look. Obviously there are no customs charges when shipping to anywhere in the EU.

Julian
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marc.s
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« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2006, 07:48:17 AM »
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Thanks Julian - it seems this site is cheaper though: http://shop.colourconfidence.com/index.php

I also still have to pay VAT here (so I actually pay double VAT).
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