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Author Topic: DCF Full Spectrum plug-in  (Read 65136 times)
paulbk
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« on: April 05, 2006, 07:22:02 PM »
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Has anyone tried this?  DCF Full Spectrum

This from Jon Cone's Inkjet Mall... "This unique technology allows your camera to reproduce all colors accurately, including difficult hues such as violet, deep blue, and sunlit green.

The RGB (Red, Green, Blue) color model was designed for the efficient production of colors using a trichromatic light emitter, such as a computer monitor or a camera LCD. It is a model for producing illumination; it was not designed to simulate the complexity of human color vision. Although RGB can be used to produce millions of color combinations, the hues are not arranged in a way that is consistent with how we see. As a result, digital cameras generate a simplified, limited spectrum."
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paul b. kramarchyk
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 11:36:00 AM »
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Has anyone tried this?  DCF Full Spectrum

I have it.  It was inexpensive so I thought it would be a good addition to the CS2  "arsenal", but I haven't used it enough to really comment whether it is worth the effort or not.
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.....Andrzej
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2006, 02:37:26 PM »
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This looks interesting but I don't want to spend even 50 bucks on a product where I can't test it first on my own images. There needs to be a trial version of this product. I couldn't find any sort of reviews on it either.

T
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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2006, 02:57:58 PM »
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Has anyone tried this?  DCF Full Spectrum

This from Jon Cone's Inkjet Mall... "This unique technology allows your camera to reproduce all colors accurately, including difficult hues such as violet, deep blue, and sunlit green.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What has Jon been smoking <g>

This was discussed in length on the ColorSync list (see URL below). The color geeks dismissed it as flat out BS! Don't waste your money or your time.

[a href=\"http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2006/Mar/msg00245.html]http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-...r/msg00245.html[/url]
Especially useful:

http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-...r/msg00249.html
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 03:12:36 PM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 03:36:38 PM »
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Every Macbeth Color Checker I've ever seen has a nice purple patch (Patch 10 and not too far off, patch 17). So I took my wife's Digital ELF PHD camera and shot one. This isn't what I'd call a high end camera guys. Do you see anything wrong with those patches?
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Andrew Rodney
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paulbk
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 12:13:22 PM »
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re: DCF...... Save your money!

I start with a simple extracted JPG from 1D mk2 RAW file, same file processed in both cases, and ONLY the corrections noted:
LEFT chart... DCF Full Spectrum Correction applied.
RIGHT chart... only levels with snap neutral midtones applied.

Looks like DCF turns blue to purple. Pathetic.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 12:35:11 PM by paulbk » Logged

paul b. kramarchyk
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 07:09:48 PM »
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When you go from RAW from the sensor, to RGB in Photoshop, there are a few things that happen along the way. One is the colour matrix, which is a 3x3 set of values that transforms the colour space of the camera with respect to the incoming light and the RGB filters on the pixels into the RGB space of whatever you choose your RGB space to be. Looks to me that DCF are tweaking those values to use a different RGB transform matrix. Look slike nothing you can't do with Photoshop and a bit of time on your hands to get the exact values, then make it an action....

Graeme
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 10:50:41 PM »
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It's obvious just by looking at their sample images that the program is doing nothing more than shift the hue of blue. But hey, it has contrast and hue adjustment sliders too so it must be worth $50.
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tribecalabs
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2006, 06:23:24 AM »
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Mr. Rodney, thank you for providing such a good image of the Macbeth Color Checker so that I can demonstrate the effects of DCF Full Spectrum.

DCF Full Spectrum is a nonlinear RGB color palette for designed to simulate the complexity of human color perception.

The RGB model used by all digital cameras is a model designed for the efficient production of illumination using three colored stimuli. Colors are spatially and perceptually even fractions of the whole. They remain chromatically constant as their value is changed. Human response to a color, on the other hand, is not usually described as spatially and perceptually even fractions of the response to illumination. We have a much more complex processor than that. We know intuitively that as a color becomes darker it becomes deeper. This is a human characterization. A digital camera does not characterize, it can only quantify. The result is that darker colors, like purplish blues lack the characterization of purplish and simply get displayed as dark blue. (If you have ever watched the LA Lakers or the Minnesota Vikings on TV, you will know what I mean by the above. On TV, their jerseys appear dark blue, but in real life their jerseys are deep purple.)

DCF Full Spectrum characterizes the data quantified by a digital camera to produce more photorealistic images.

The image on the left is the image Andrew Rodney provided, the image on the right uses DCF Full Spectrum. As pointed out, the most obvious difference is that the DCF image has deeper blues (or to use their descriptive ISCC/NBS names “purplish blues”). Additionally you may also notice warmer, deeper greens and oranges. In fact, closer examination reveals that all colors go through a transformation. Improved color contrast, the perceived brightness of adjacent colors, means DCF images looker sharper and more clear with no sharpening.

While we are in development of a water mark version of DCF Full Spectrum, we will happily process test images for those who wish to evaluate results before making a purchase, for information e-mail contact@tribecalabs.com.

Thank you,

Mike Bevans
Tribeca Labs
www.tribecalabs.com
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digitaldog
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2006, 10:21:00 AM »
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I'm looking at both files after downloading and assigning sRGB (not the silly camera RGB profile the toy Canon tagged, should have done that first) and in Photoshop, I'm not seeing anything the image to the right really brings to the party. Certainly when comparing it to a LAB Macbeth version and certainly not withstanding a tweak (if anyone even thinks it's necessary) with selective color.

The web site makes it pretty clear this some heinous issue with digital cameras and this $50 product is a godsend but I still think, based on this test that you've got a solution in search of a problem.

Least we forget, this is a Macbeth JPEG from a $200 Digital Elf circa 2003 or so.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2006, 10:25:44 AM »
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Curious reading about that hue error compensation that the plugin does. Sounds like it's trying to repair the gamma error damage from 2.2 boost. If you work on linear intensity space this plugin probably is not worthwhile. (I probably should test it myself before commenting ...)
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paulbk
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2006, 07:35:50 PM »
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Mike Bevans, Tribeca Labs

See my examples below. Why does DCF Full Spectrum correction turn blue (col 1, row 3) to purple-ish?

I've tried this many times using different RAW convert software and making no corrections in PSCS2 other than DCF. My color checker was shot in bright sun using Canon 1D Mark II. I generally like what it does to all other colors except the shift in blue to purple. Can't use it with a clear blue sky, it makes it purple-ish.

RAW.. white balance, convert to color space =  Adobe1998
LEFT target: Photoshop.. no correction
RIGHT target: Photoshop.. DCF Full Spectrum applied
Both files converted to sRGB for web JPG examples.
sRGB looks no different then Adobe1998 on my calibrated monitor.

p
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 07:54:17 PM by paulbk » Logged

paul b. kramarchyk
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2006, 06:58:45 AM »
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Paul,

DCF Full Spectrum is a color palette designed for digital photography. Just like back in the day when you would choose between Kodak and Fuji film, you were choosing different palettes. Both Kodak and Fuji film could be properly exposed and balanced; however, it was commonly believed that Kodak had deeper blues and Fuji had more vibrant reds. The color palettes between the two films were different.

DCF Full Spectrum is an alternate RGB palette for digital photography. DCF Full Spectrum is our “Reala” film, DCF Portrait is our “Portra” and DCF Vivid is like “Velvia”. Using the DCF Control Panel, you can customize your own color palette.

Before I begin an analysis of your results, a couple things should be pointed out. You mention that you shot the color target in bright sunlight. If this is the case, your starting exposure is a little bit down. According to the folks at gretag, the white square on the color chart will read about 243RGB when properly exposed, whereas the white patch on your color target reads about 220RGB. Also, it should be noted that even though your white balance is correct the appearance of the blue squares in question will vary when removed from sunlight and viewed inside next to a monitor. White may still look white (because the brightest white in the scene is your eye’s white point) but the particular blue square you mention will appear much redder when in sunlight (depending on the tiome of day) than it does indoors. I mention this simply to point out that we don’t have an apples-to-apples test to begin with.

That said, you are correct, DCF Full Spectrum blues are more purplish. The blue you refer to is actually called "vivid purplish blue" (and the blue patch up and to the right from this one is referred to as "strong purplish blue") by the Inter-Society Color Council (ISCC) and the United States Department of Commerce's National Bureau of Standards (NBS) (now called the National Institute of Standards and Technology).

DCF Full Spectrum is a color difference model between RGB and human color perception. It is our definition of digital color fidelity. How much your particular camera differs from our default setting may vary, based upon camera performance(exposure, for example) and individual preference. If you feel the color is too purple, you can use the DCF Control Panel to define your own settings.

By turning OFF DCF Full Spectrum in the Control Panel and turning ON the Additional Controls, you can set your own difference model using our color formula (to varying degrees). Set each of the four color sliders to 50% resulting in a formula equal to our default DCF Full Spectrum. I recommend setting all of the sliders at their 50% position (equal to our default) but turning down the Blue slider to 33-25%. You will still see deeper blues and purples, but not quite as strong as our default.

Once you have a setting you like, you can create a Photoshop Action that LOADs your preferred setting. (To record this action, open a dummy image, click the LOAD button in the DCF Control Panel and load your preferred setting). Once you have done this, you can simply run the action without needing to go through the Control Panel step.

Thank you,

Mike Bevans
www.tribecalabs.com
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marc.s
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2006, 07:44:22 AM »
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DCF Full Spectrum is an alternate RGB palette for digital photography. DCF Full Spectrum is our “Reala” film, DCF Portrait is our “Portra” and DCF Vivid is like “Velvia”. Using the DCF Control Panel, you can customize your own color palette.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62546\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There's a difference between a product that adds a number of styles - or film emulations - and then claiming that digital cameras do not record purple, is there not?

Despite the claim on the front page of your website: "Your eyes see purple. So why doesn't your camera" both my digital cameras are perfectly capable of recording purple.

There's nothing wrong with your product, only with your fraudulent advertising.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2006, 09:10:16 AM »
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There's a difference between a product that adds a number of styles - or film emulations - and then claiming that digital cameras do not record purple, is there not?

Despite the claim on the front page of your website: "Your eyes see purple. So why doesn't your camera" both my digital cameras are perfectly capable of recording purple.

There's nothing wrong with your product, only with your fraudulent advertising.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62551\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think you hit the hammer on the nail here! Good job.

I'm shooting RAW, and I have all kinds of tools at my disposal for producing a myriad of renderings (flim looks plus!).  Check out the HLS controls in Lightroom. Talk about a great tool for tweaking all kinds of renderings (and yes, you can do this on rendered files as well).
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2006, 09:49:54 AM »
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Oh, I'm so looking forward to Lightroom being available on Windows! Right now I have to tweak all my important pictures individually in Photoshop since I'm not happy with the controls of any current raw converter. The resulting file sizes (and time spent) are less than ideal, and from what I've heard Lightroom sounds like a big step in the right direction.
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tribecalabs
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2006, 04:10:31 PM »
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Thank you for the constructive criticism regarding our website. We will certainly take your comments into consideration as we redesign our website and fine-tune our message.

As we are all aware, color is a complex subject, and reducing the discussion to a simple statement appears to have caused some controversy. In no way do we intend to deceive, we simply want to make a case for a real solution to a real problem.

The problem addressed by DCF Full Spectrum is that the RGB system reproduces an incomplete spectrum of colors. As you can see in the digital recording and reproduction of the component colors of sunlight (the spectrum shot below), RGB systems have difficulty reproducing shorter wavelengths of light (original image on the left). In the Full Spectrum RGB image on the right, you can clearly see how the spectrum includes the shorter wavelengths of light for a more complete reproduction of violet, and in turn the whole spectrum.

[attachment=448:attachment]

This is what we mean when we say: “Your eyes see purple, so why can’t your camera?”

The poor sensitivity to violet can also be seen in this image of the LA Lakers jersey. If you have ever seen the Lakers on television, you will see that there jerseys appear bright blue, like the original digital capture on the left. The Lakers jerseys are purple, like the Full Spectrum RGB image on the right.

[attachment=449:attachment]

We first noticed the shortcomings of RGB in digital fine-art reproduction where color matching is critical. Tribeca Labs’ color experts have worked extensively with museums and cultural institutions involved in large scale digital preservation projects since 1998. Working in fully color managed environments with the highest resolution digital scan back cameras, we have been able to confirm that the problem is common and can be seen in every camera or monitor.

For nature photographers, DCF Full Spectrum provides richer, more photorealistic and natural colors, as you can see in the following images of flowers (original on the left, Full Spectrum RGB on the right).

[attachment=451:attachment]

[attachment=452:attachment]

Mark.S asks, “There's a difference between a product that adds a number of styles - or film emulations - and then claiming that digital cameras do not record purple, is there not?”

The comparison between Kodak film (deep blues) and Fuji film (vibrant red) was made to illustrate the concept of a color palette. For example, to say Kodak film has deeper blues than Fuji film is like saying Full Spectrum RGB has deeper blues than RGB alone.

Admittedly, one problem we have with our advertising is that people think that DCF Full Spectrum only affects purples. In the shot of the trees below you can see how DCF Full Spectrum brings out the complexity of greens, producing a better sense of space and dimension (RGB on the left, Full Spectrum RGB on the right).

[attachment=453:attachment]

Full Spectrum RGB is available in two additional settings, the “number of styles,” to which Mark.S refers: DCF Vivid and DCF Portrait. These are optional intensity settings that make use of the expanded Full Spectrum RGB color palette. The following photographs make use of DCF Vivid color (original image on the left, DCF Vivid on the right).

[attachment=454:attachment]

[attachment=455:attachment]

[attachment=456:attachment]

The above images are compliments of the photographers at www.sxc.hu.

Finally, because we know photographers like to make their own adjustments, we added the DCF Control Panel that allows the user to compose his own color palette and intensity settings.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. If you have any questions, you can contact me directly at mike@tribecalabs.com.

Sincerely,

Michael Bevans
www.tribecalabs.com
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digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2006, 04:47:29 PM »
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Still don't get it. Notice my simple Photoshop fix using selective color. Two sample points in Info palette with before and after numbers show my simple tweak produced the same fix. This "fix" assumes I actually prefer the color on the right side compared to the left in the original file. Bottom line however, it's super fast and simple to produce this rendering in Photoshop.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2006, 04:57:23 PM »
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Digitaldog, you should turn that into an action and sell it! :-)

Graeme
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tribecalabs
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2006, 05:11:44 PM »
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Mr. Rodney,

Thank you for pointing out that there are many ways to skin a cat.

Just as I can purchase a Photoshop plug-in that gives me a cross-processed look, I can just as easily get the same result with a number of Photoshop tools, like Channel Mixer and/or curves. Similarly, I can purchase a plug-in that gives me a better neutral balance, an infra-red look, or a "nocturnal look", or I can spend my time in Photoshop using the tools available to get the look I want.

Obviously there are any number of tools that allow retouchers to manually adjust the colors of individual images.

The point of any program is to make a process easier. If you prefer to spend your time editing each individual picture, you can,or you can purchase a program that saves you time and effort and may well produce a superior result to manual intervention.

Happy Easter,

Michael Bevans
www.tribecalabs.com
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 07:35:00 PM by tribecalabs » Logged
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