Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Sinar eMotion 22 mp  (Read 12071 times)
Henry Goh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574


« on: April 08, 2006, 08:41:45 AM »
ReplyReply

How much would this back (demo unit) be worth (without adapter plate)?  Also, can it be used with a V series Hassleblad body like the 500cm or SWC903?  I'm a complete green horn    and am looking to get started with some used backs to learn MFDB.

Is this back any good?

Thanks.  

Henry
Logged
RolandBaker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 40


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2006, 10:04:46 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
How much would this back (demo unit) be worth (without adapter plate)?  Also, can it be used with a V series Hassleblad body like the 500cm or SWC903?  I'm a complete green horn    and am looking to get started with some used backs to learn MFDB.

Is this back any good?

Thanks.  

Henry
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Henry,

I haven't used this back yet so I can't help you with your question about how well it works. Maybe someone else here can chime in.

However, it will indeed work with any Hassy V mount camera. It works with a wide array of cameras with the addition of the proper plate.

Please take a look here:
[a href=\"http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/e22-tech.php]http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/e22-tech.php[/url]
http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/e22.php

Ball-park guess on demo pricing would be $17K... maybe someone else here has a closer number.

Also note that Sinar uses the Dalsa chip like Leaf in contrast to the Kodak chip for what that is worth.  

One final bit of news is that Sinar is coming out with their new back called eMotion75 (33MP) soon.  So this will be in the same range as the Leaf Aptus 75.

Good luck with your quest for the perfect back!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 10:12:55 AM by RolandBaker » Logged

Best regards,

Roland
pprdigital
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 422


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2006, 09:00:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Henry:

The demo price might depend on when the dealer purchased the eMotion22. Last year, in the US, the eMotion 22 sold for $28K. Now, with the eMotion 75 coming out, it's at $23,600. Demo dicsounts can range anywhere from 10% - 25% (normally). But factors can affect that pricing including:

*how long the dealer has had the unit
*how motivated they are to turn it
*how much revenue they've generated through rentals
*the condition of the unit

At PPR Digital, we typically try to turn our digital backs every 6 months, but there are exceptions.

Regarding the back itself - you didn't indicate what type of photography you perform. Generally you can get stellar results from any 22MP+ digital back. However, there are niches where some backs will outperform others (although subtly is the norm). The pluses of the eMotion are:

*fastest back for capture speed (rivals Leaf Aptus 22)
*internal storage (3GB) without cards
*compact flash
*OLED screen
*choice of software (Sinar's CaptureShop/Eyelike Capture Pro)
*Interchangable camera plate system (not locked into any camera platform)
*compatible with all the Sinar system cameras and accessories

The eMotion is certainly a big step forward for Sinar in terms of a modern, location/studio & people/product solution that was missing in their lineup previously.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
Logged

Steve Hendrix
Henry Goh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574


« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2006, 09:35:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Henry,

I haven't used this back yet so I can't help you with your question about how well it works. Maybe someone else here can chime in.

However, it will indeed work with any Hassy V mount camera. It works with a wide array of cameras with the addition of the proper plate.

Please take a look here:
http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/e22-tech.php
http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/e22.php

Ball-park guess on demo pricing would be $17K... maybe someone else here has a closer number.

Also note that Sinar uses the Dalsa chip like Leaf in contrast to the Kodak chip for what that is worth. 

One final bit of news is that Sinar is coming out with their new back called eMotion75 (33MP) soon.  So this will be in the same range as the Leaf Aptus 75.

Good luck with your quest for the perfect back!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62282\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Roland, thank you very much for the links and info.

Henry
Logged
Henry Goh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574


« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2006, 09:36:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Henry:

The demo price might depend on when the dealer purchased the eMotion22. Last year, in the US, the eMotion 22 sold for $28K. Now, with the eMotion 75 coming out, it's at $23,600. Demo dicsounts can range anywhere from 10% - 25% (normally). But factors can affect that pricing including:

*how long the dealer has had the unit
*how motivated they are to turn it
*how much revenue they've generated through rentals
*the condition of the unit

At PPR Digital, we typically try to turn our digital backs every 6 months, but there are exceptions.

Regarding the back itself - you didn't indicate what type of photography you perform. Generally you can get stellar results from any 22MP+ digital back. However, there are niches where some backs will outperform others (although subtly is the norm). The pluses of the eMotion are:

*fastest back for capture speed (rivals Leaf Aptus 22)
*internal storage (3GB) without cards
*compact flash
*OLED screen
*choice of software (Sinar's CaptureShop/Eyelike Capture Pro)
*Interchangable camera plate system (not locked into any camera platform)
*compatible with all the Sinar system cameras and accessories

The eMotion is certainly a big step forward for Sinar in terms of a modern, location/studio & people/product solution that was missing in their lineup previously.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you Steve!

That's good information.  I'll have a closer look at this back for sure.

Henry
Logged
Ed Jack
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 225


« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2006, 09:53:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
How much would this back (demo unit) be worth (without adapter plate)?  Also, can it be used with a V series Hassleblad body like the 500cm or SWC903?  I'm a complete green horn    and am looking to get started with some used backs to learn MFDB.

Is this back any good?

Thanks.  

Henry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62147\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well.... did you get the one on e-bay just now - which I assume is the reason you were asking the question ? It only got a couple of bidders - someone got a great deal!

Ed
Logged
nik
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 205


WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 05:39:52 AM »
ReplyReply

Henry, I used this back about 2 months ago on a Hasselblad 503, some images (full resolution) are here; http://www.stoqq.com/sinar-test , also http://www.stoqq.com/mavs06 (not full res). I think it's a fantastic back, delivering wonderful results, worth about $20-22k now as the 33Mpix is coming out. One thing that it does do is show you just how crap some lenses are. I used it with a 500mm hasselblad lens, the chromatic aberrations were rather extreme. My thoughts and reason for not buying it are;

- It's a 645 frame size, so, you need to use a fiddly mask on your waist-level viewfinder

- You can't use it with a PM90 prism (the back is too deep and clashes with the pm90)

- The software is Mac only, no photoshop CS2 / Bridge support yet

- 2.2" OLED screen is too small for me, although it did quite well in bright sun

- You need to use a sync cord from your lens to the back, so, any external flash or radio slave you want to use (usually mounted on my PM90!) is a bit trickier to mount

My recommendation is to use an H1/H2 with this back (who else is left!?), not the Hasselblad V, you really need the autofocus, the 645 aspect ratio and the auto exposure that the H1/H2 gives. Even if you're slightly off focus, the back is unforgiving in showing you just what a crap focussing job you did.

Lastly, I know it's a remarkable feat of engineering, (the best 22MP back out there) but it's simply too expensive and not good enough (noise wise) above 100 ISO.

-Nik
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 03:10:20 AM by nik » Logged
David WM
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 10:07:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Well.... did you get the one on e-bay just now - which I assume is the reason you were asking the question ? It only got a couple of bidders - someone got a great deal!

Ed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62466\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I 'm still waiting for the back to arrive Ed. Its in customs at the moment,should get it early next week. I hope it was a great deal, I'll find out soon. I was surprised by the lack of serious bidders, especially after such good promotion here.  It would be good to be able to afford to support the local dealer, have their support and more peace of mind, but as I am also upgrading to an H1 and just getting scrap metal value for the old RZ gear, the saving of buying a demo back was too tempting.

David
Logged
brumbaer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2006, 09:01:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
- The software is Mac only, no photoshop CS2 / Bridge support yet

There is a little program (Mac only again) that converts the images from the eMotion to dng format without using the "standard" software.
On my Mac it takes about 70 seconds to transfer 20 images from the back and convert them to dngs.

The dngs can be opened directly in PS or Raw Developer.

http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html

Regards
SH
Logged
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2006, 05:23:49 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
There is a little program (Mac only again) that converts the images from the eMotion to dng format without using the "standard" software.
On my Mac it takes about 70 seconds to transfer 20 images from the back and convert them to dngs.

The dngs can be opened directly in PS or Raw Developer.

http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html

Regards
SH
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64176\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
wow.... nice little tool.
just came back from a longer production with the e22. is it possible to cenvert also files which are already imported with the eylike software or even with sinar capture? would be very usefull , at least the eyelike sw holds the "br" references seperate. but i couldnt reach to convert them.....
i asked months ago jenoptic for such a tool but they havent they said. sure you went in contact with them , i am right?
Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
brumbaer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2006, 04:12:30 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
wow.... nice little tool.
just came back from a longer production with the e22. is it possible to cenvert also files which are already imported with the eylike software or even with sinar capture? would be very usefull , at least the eyelike sw holds the "br" references seperate. but i couldnt reach to convert them.....
i asked months ago jenoptic for such a tool but they havent they said. sure you went in contact with them , i am right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=65299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The files created by the eyelike software are R and P files, which can be converted, but it will take time to analyze the files (I've analyzed some parts already, but not all) and add a conversion routine to the tool. As this is a private endeavour and I do not need a routine like that at the moment, this has no high priority on my agenda.

I didn't approach jenoptic, because I expect them to have all the information needed to write a tool like this on short notice, should they decide to do so.

Regards
Stephan
Logged
brumbaer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2006, 03:06:01 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
is it possible to cenvert also files which are already imported with the eylike software or even with sinar capture? would be very usefull , at least the eyelike sw holds the "br" references seperate. but i couldnt reach to convert them.....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I added a converter for the eyelike files, just drag them on the main window as you do with IA files.
The dng files are as raw as possible, so all changes and settings made in eylike capture are lost in the dng.

The file is in [a href=\"http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html]http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html[/url]

Regards
SH
Logged
David WM
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2006, 11:16:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Well.... did you get the one on e-bay just now - which I assume is the reason you were asking the question ? It only got a couple of bidders - someone got a great deal!

Ed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62466\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've had the back for a while now. Here is my impression so far. I've only just now converted to it for all my work. It took a while as I've been putting together a H1 outfit  (and still working on Cambo ultima 23 outfit).
I'm really impressed with it. I have not tested other 22MP backs seriously so my opinions relate to the differences from the SLRn I've been using (and previously Leaf DCB2). Its like the difference between 35mm and medium format when using film. The camera  & medium format optics are no doubt partly the reason for that. I find the quality of the files very different. Although it is early days, the scenes that impressed me are the quality of the files with a dusk scene (lots of underexposed shaddow areas), which is just a different level to the Kodak, so much less noise,. None to speak of really.  Also,  I have just finished 2 days using tethered mode shooting furniture using studio flash lighting. With the SLRn I found the colour rendition of some stained timbers very variable. I tended to have to work the images quite a bit to make sure the colour  and contrast was good. This contrasted to when I used to use a Leaf DCB2 for the same work when the files needed very little work (apart from the time to check registration & reshoot when it wasn't OK).  I find the e22 a welcome return to a better quality initial capture. The noise evident in dark fabrics on sofas etc is a big improvement.
One drawback at the moment is the processing time with my current Mac, a dual 1.8 G5 with 2 gig RAM I've had for a couple of years. It takes around 40 seconds to open or export a full res file. I found that using Sinar captureshop I could assess the image in contact sheet (which has variable sized view, something Kodak photodesk was in need of) crop it and export the file without opening the image in captureshop, which would've taken too much time.  When working from the conact sheet  cropping is not easy, its not a click-drag like PS but you need to enter the crop coordinates or use preset saved crops (I hope the click drag will be added soon) . I will probably keep using it my G5 for now and wait for the new intel Mac towers before upgrading the Mac, hopefully they're not too far away.
Picking up a demo 22 mp back has saved me a lot which I have been able to put into the camera system, there should be others around. If you can stretch to the new backs I expect they'd be better  (if I wasn't also getting a camera system then I would've bought a new one) but the quality of the files from the22 will keep me happy for the time being.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad