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Author Topic: Epson 4800, premium luster and out gasing  (Read 3957 times)
Wil Hershberger
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« on: April 18, 2006, 11:02:11 AM »
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I am at my whits end.  I have tried placing paper over the prints with pressure and waiting 24 hours, change the paper and let it sit for another 24 hours - I still get out gasing on prints that are matted and framed under glass.

I even tried an old print drier from my B&W days - temp set to high, placed the print between two sheet of computer paper and heated this way for 10 minutes - I still get out gasing.

What is the current state-of-the-art in curing premium luster prints with the K3 ultrachrome inks???

I have been using windex to clean the glass; is there a better method for cleaning the glass?

I am at the point where I might have to spray the prints with some sort of sealer.  Any recommendations regarding which of  the spray sealers are the best?

Thank you for any help that you can give,
Wil
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2006, 04:00:11 PM »
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A couple of years ago, I was exactly where you are now (though with the 2200, not the K3 inks, but it's probably similar).  Epson's mantra about drying with paper over it being the "solution" is somewhere between wishful thinking and BS.

After trying a number of different glossy and semigloss papers, I found that they vary tremendously in the amount of outgassing they produce.  Epson's are the worst in this regard that I've found.  I've found other papers that have minimal outgassing.  My current favorite is Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss.  They also make a Smooth Pearl, which is probably reasonably close to a luster finish; I haven't tried it, but I would guess it probably doesn't have much outgassing either.  You can get sample packs of that and other papers at inkjetart.com and try them yourself.

Lisa
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Wil Hershberger
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2006, 06:14:26 PM »
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Lisa,
Thank you very much.  What a pain.  I already have nearly 100 prints that need to be prepared for a show.  I am hoping that someone will comment on a sealing spray to use.
I will certainly check out the papers that you mentioned.
Thanks a lot,
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2006, 07:55:58 PM »
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P.S.  You asked about cleaning with Windex in your original post.  Back when I had outgassing problems, I used Windex to periodically clean the glass.  It seemed to work fine, as long as you run a dry paper towel over the glass after cleaning to make sure all Windex residue is gone.

I tried a sealing spray once, but had trouble getting it to go on evenly at a reasonable thickness.  Some people do this, though, so it probably works after some practice.  If you go that route, leave time to practice with it awhile before doing anything important...

Lisa
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 07:58:21 PM by nniko » Logged

Wil Hershberger
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2006, 08:15:16 PM »
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Thanks again Lisa.  Great information! Thanks
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2006, 09:02:11 PM »
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Will,

I have not had great success with sealers on IJ prints and would be concerned about trapping remaining gas also.  Like Lisa I have had good luck with Ilford's Smooth Pearl Board and just laying sheets loose on the prints and stacking (no weight) for 24 - 36 hours.  Of course that is not solving your immediate problem.  However, if you are using aluminum frames or frames that are not dust sealed, you might think about 2 things that might help.  First, spot hinges and not a continuous hing along the top, and second, a 1/32" or 1/16" gap (whatever can be hid by the face profile)  between the top of the backing board and the top of the frame - anything that might permit the remaining gas to escape.

I hope you find a workable solution.

Ed
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Ed Foster, Jr.
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ddolde
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2006, 09:33:33 PM »
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Why not ditch the RC paper for something like Museo Silver Rag?
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madmanchan
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2006, 06:39:41 AM »
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Quote
Why not ditch the RC paper for something like Museo Silver Rag?
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Is Museo Silver Rag (or similar fiber papers) readily available yet?  If so, where?  

Thanks,
Eric
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Mark Graf
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2006, 02:21:46 PM »
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Wil - I am not sure if you have tried a non-ammonia based glass cleaner or not - but there was some speculation on the Epson WideFormat list that this could be contributing to the issue.  Others claimed use of Plexiglass seemed to resolve it for them.   But to be honest, I don't know if there has been any conclusive evidence that gives a definitive solution.

Mark
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Paul2660
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 03:01:34 PM »
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Plexiglass works as it will allow the print to breath better.  However when you start working with larger sheets other problems come into play, like static charge and dust. Plexiglass will also scratch much faster.

Glass can be cleaned totaly with Windex to remove the effects of outgassing.  You have to really work it hard as one pass many times won't do it.  I have switched to True Vue's cleaner sold by United Manufacturing.  

I have also tried the method Epson claims to work by putting paper over the print for 24 hours.  Net, they will still outgass.  

It's a pain and also something that many buyers don't understand and will try to claim you have sold a defective print.  I had hoped that the K3 ink's would not have this problem but they do.  

As previously pointed out the Epson RC paper's seem to be the worst also.  

Paul C.
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Paul Caldwell
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Blog> http://paulcaldwellphotography.com
Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2006, 05:33:16 PM »
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Quote from: madmanchan,Apr 19 2006, 11:39 AM
Is Museo Silver Rag (or similar fiber papers) readily available yet?  If so, where?  

Thanks,
Eric
Crane's MSR is available in rolls only at present. I expect the usual US suppliers have them . I have some 17" rolls here in Au, and am waiting for more and a bigger range. Certainly lots of people contributing to these pages are using it. Other papers in a similar genre eg the Hahnemuhle and Innova offerings ,seem to be around the place too. How all of them behave as far as outgassing goes will take a little time to determine. With these and the "art" type papers it may be that the remnant gas just takes longer to emerge. The stuff comes from humidicants in the inkset that reduce nozzle clogging . It seems that these papers either trap the gas somehow or release most of it very quickly. MSR seems to dry much faster than , say the lustre or gloss type papers , but there may be exceptions like those mentioned , which would seem to be a function of the coatings.
Cheers,
Brian.
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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AJSJones
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2006, 07:06:30 PM »
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Don't know about the K3 inks but with those from the 7600 onto Premium Luster, I have had success with Premier Art Print Shield.  I let  my prints "dry" for at least 2 days.  My first spray attempts were too thickly applied, so I ended up doing a couple of mistings about 15 minutes apart - good ventilation (I had to get a respirator  after getting a migraine without it!) is a must.  The resulting surface is just like the original but is MUCH more scuff resistant as well as waterproof.  The spray should dry for a good while (maybe at least an hour?)  before it loses all potential stickiness - if you need to put anything on top of it.  Wilhelm has tested it and it improves longevity usefully.  I even read a post from someone that uses it instead of glass for framing.
YMMV
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drew
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 06:27:37 AM »
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I use the similar product, Lyson Print Guard. It is very easy to apply, it improves the finish of the paper and makes it more scuff resistant and largely eliminates bronzing and gloss differential.
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