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Author Topic: Phase One P45 @ 400 or Hassy 39CF DB?  (Read 6829 times)
RicAgu
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« on: May 22, 2006, 03:39:11 PM »
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Hello,

I have a P25 that I am somewhat happy with.  I recently tried the A75 which is amazing up to 800 ASA and 400 is like 100, but I have some issues with LC 10.  I have a lot of experience with Flexcolor from my Imacon days and don't mind it and am quiet use to it.  Does anyone have experience with the new Hassy digital back at 400?

I do love C1 Pro and would like to know what experience anyone has had at 400 ASA with the P45?  Real portrait experience out in the field where something would be backlight, mixed lighting in quick situations.  In a studio only situation all the backs are great.  In the field I have found that just tossing a PXX back on an H1 and ripping away always worked best.  I meter, look at the Histo and then just fire away.  No one looks at files for minutes or hours on end.  I don't like to shoot tethered unless in the studio and even then it can be annoying.  But most of my work is location so I shoot to card and then dump as we go.  I look forward to this GigaVu thing from Jobo to handle some of these files on the road.  But we'll see what that thing turns out to be.

Anyway,  I appreaciate any advice on P45's at 400 shooting portraits or environmental portraits.

Best,

RA
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SeanBK
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 10:42:10 AM »
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Soon Michael R will post his review of P45 & Aptus. That should answer how P45 behaves @400. As Leaf's comparison of theirs & Phase has been questioned/replied in the other thread.
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RicAgu
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 05:16:33 PM »
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Thanks for getting back to me.

Though I highlly respect and appreciate MR and the rest of those guys work.  It seems they only shoot their backs at 50.  As amazing as those images are.  I really need to see what that can do on location, backlit at 400 and hopefully 800.

Hopefully MR will do some shooting at 400 and 800.  The Aptus was fantastic at all levels, even the 800 was acceptable.  Their 400 was comparable with 100/200.  My problem is I don't need an 39mp files!  I don't have the money to spend on terabytes of storage.  I already have one xRaid maxed with 7TB of space and a Weibetech RT5 at 3.75 TB.  I don't want to have to buy more HD's.



Quote
Soon Michael R will post his review of P45 & Aptus. That should answer how P45 behaves @400. As Leaf's comparison of theirs & Phase has been questioned/replied in the other thread.
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Black Ricco
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 02:27:33 AM »
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My problem is I don't need an 39mp files! I don't have the money to spend on terabytes of storage. I already have one xRaid maxed with 7TB of space and a Weibetech RT5 at 3.75 TB. I don't want to have to buy more HD's.

I'm assuming that that by stating  you don't need 39mp files you're capable of capturing 39mp files in which case I would suggest that you process at 20, 30, or 50% which would cut your storage needs considerably. I would also suggest that you be a bit more brutal and discriminating in your editing process.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 02:28:23 AM by Black Ricco » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 01:14:30 PM »
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My problem is I don't need an 39mp files!  I don't have the money to spend on terabytes of storage.  I already have one xRaid maxed with 7TB of space and a Weibetech RT5 at 3.75 TB.  I don't want to have to buy more HD's.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67208\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can get a 4*750 GB Raid 5 NAS solution for less than 2500 US$ nowadays (2.25 TB net storage with failsafe capability).

That is about 30.000 P45 images that you need to keep... is the price of HD really a problem?

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
pss
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 03:18:26 PM »
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You can get a 4*750 GB Raid 5 NAS solution for less than 2500 US$ nowadays (2.25 TB net storage with failsafe capability).

That is about 30.000 P45 images that you need to keep... is the price of HD really a problem?

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
actually, yes it is...as a commercial photographer shooting between 500 and 2000 frames a day is about average...catalogue can be a lot more...and most of these jobs don't even require 16mipx...
now think about an agressive edit and process the files as 16bit tiffs and we are talking a problem just delivering the files!
my ideal back would be a full frame (as close to as possible) 20mipx chip that shoots 50-60 frames/sec with a 14-16 stop dynamic rangeup to 1600asa (800very clean)...i don't think that will ever come out, especially with everyone screaming for 30 and 40mpix...
i guess what it comes down to is that for my next back, i don't really have an option, i can't get the back i want (which replaces MF film), i have to get the one that replaces 4x5..and i would never want to shoot 500 or 1000sheets of 4x5 in a day...
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Black Ricco
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 01:05:56 AM »
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actually, yes it is...as a commercial photographer shooting between 500 and 2000 frames a day is about average...catalogue can be a lot more...and most of these jobs don't even require 16mipx...
now think about an agressive edit and process the files as 16bit tiffs and we are talking a problem just delivering the files!
my ideal back would be a full frame (as close to as possible) 20mipx chip that shoots 50-60 frames/sec with a 14-16 stop dynamic rangeup to 1600asa (800very clean)...i don't think that will ever come out, especially with everyone screaming for 30 and 40mpix...
i guess what it comes down to is that for my next back, i don't really have an option, i can't get the back i want (which replaces MF film), i have to get the one that replaces 4x5..and i would never want to shoot 500 or 1000sheets of 4x5 in a day...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67472\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did anyone else find the above quote as incoherent and ridiculous as I did, or is it just me?

2000 frames a day , which I assume since the discussion is about digital backs, would actually be 2000 "captures" a day... and that's average? LOL

And catalogue can be a lot more. LMAO! Tell me... do you wear a cape?

And oh yeah... I'd love a 20 megapixel chip that shoots 50-60 fps with a 14-16 stop dynamic range up to 1600 asa...

I'd also like to nail Kate Beckensale.

I think my chances with the latter are better.
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eronald
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 05:57:20 AM »
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Quote
Did anyone else find the above quote as incoherent and ridiculous as I did, or is it just me?

2000 frames a day , which I assume since the discussion is about digital backs, would actually be 2000 "captures" a day... and that's average? LOL

And catalogue can be a lot more. LMAO! Tell me... do you wear a cape?

And oh yeah... I'd love a 20 megapixel chip that shoots 50-60 fps with a 14-16 stop dynamic range up to 1600 asa...

I'd also like to nail Kate Beckensale.

I think my chances with the latter are better.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think there already is an 8MP HD camera from Dalsa, probably others in the lab, used for digital cinema.
[a href=\"http://www.dalsa.com/dc/origin/origin.asp]http://www.dalsa.com/dc/origin/origin.asp[/url]
http://www.dalsa.com/dc/origin/dc_sensor.asp

As for the model - I believe that if you discretely offered the price of an Aptus or Phase back for a couple of hours of her time, with an NDA, offers might be realistically entertained

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 06:04:55 AM by eronald » Logged
pss
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 12:43:43 PM »
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Quote
Did anyone else find the above quote as incoherent and ridiculous as I did, or is it just me?

2000 frames a day , which I assume since the discussion is about digital backs, would actually be 2000 "captures" a day... and that's average? LOL

And catalogue can be a lot more. LMAO! Tell me... do you wear a cape?

And oh yeah... I'd love a 20 megapixel chip that shoots 50-60 fps with a 14-16 stop dynamic range up to 1600 asa...

I'd also like to nail Kate Beckensale.

I think my chances with the latter are better.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67509\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
if you think that 500-2000 captures a day is ridiculous, you obviously have never worked in a commercial photography environment and i can say that i used to assist a photographer who would shoot up to 4000 frames a day on catalogue...without a cape....i have never shot that much (with or without cape) , but really that is not the point...i don't think you know what you are talking about...
about my dream sensor: i was just making the point (which you obviously did not get) that i am not interested in seeing the evolution (or maybe you are more of an "intelligent design" kind of guy?) of digibacks going in the direction of more mpix, but larger, more sensitive, smarter pixels and keep the actual count to a manageable (sizewise) level....
about Kate: i am sure she is with someone who does not talk about "nailing" her...
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RicAgu
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 02:23:41 PM »
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Touche PSSS,

Yes 2000 frames a day is normal for a catalog, with out fail.  I shoot on different fronts from fashion catalog and music publicity to advertising and beauty.  For the catalog and music I can shoot more than 2000 frames per day but that is mainly on the Canon.  For the music I will pull out the P25.

On the sensor front I would prefer the 30mp size at full frame with a really good pixel that can handle 800 well.  I don't need 1600 but if it is there, that would be great, would open up other ideas with out noise or grain.  HD's are expensive.  I don't own a 39mp and I don't see myself getting one.  After playing I think my next back will be an A75.  The xRaid and Weibe RT5 are not maxed yet.  But at this rate it will be by the end of the year.  I don't want to spend $15k a year in buying new storage every year.  The 7TB from Apple is really only3.5 as it mirrors for safety  The Weibe 3.75 is really only for working projects and for jobs that are in queue for the xRaid.  So a bit of a crunch.  Yes I do edit quite heavily.  Especially the blinking and wierd expressons.

So back to the question at hand.  Anyone have a real world experience with the P45 or CF39 at 400 ASA and what are their thoughts?  Actually I am most likely going A75 anyway.

Thanks,

RA


Quote
if you think that 500-2000 captures a day is ridiculous, you obviously have never worked in a commercial photography environment and i can say that i used to assist a photographer who would shoot up to 4000 frames a day on catalogue...without a cape....i have never shot that much (with or without cape) , but really that is not the point...i don't think you know what you are talking about...
about my dream sensor: i was just making the point (which you obviously did not get) that i am not interested in seeing the evolution (or maybe you are more of an "intelligent design" kind of guy?) of digibacks going in the direction of more mpix, but larger, more sensitive, smarter pixels and keep the actual count to a manageable (sizewise) level....
about Kate: i am sure she is with someone who does not talk about "nailing" her...
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« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 02:25:17 PM by RicAgu » Logged
Black Ricco
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 11:26:57 PM »
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if you think that 500-2000 captures a day is ridiculous, you obviously have never worked in a commercial photography environment and i can say that i used to assist a photographer who would shoot up to 4000 frames a day on catalogue...without a cape....i have never shot that much (with or without cape) , but really that is not the point...i don't think you know what you are talking about...

4000??? Oh man, this just keeps gettin' better and better.

I've worked as a shooter in studio environments for over twenty years. Most of that being high volume catalogue work. Most recently a studio with seven shooters all using various Phase One backs on 'Blads from H25's to P45's depending on what's being shot, features or multiples. I have never worked in any studio where all the shooters "combined" have shot anywhere near 2000 sheets of film or digital captures in a single day. On a nice catalogue if you're crankin' out 12 to fourteen  multiples or three to four features between two or more sets you're haulin' ass. I'm not talkin' about Walgreens or Osco Drugs where you throw a can of deodorant or a bottle of mouthwash on white seamless and bang out a 8 stop bracket like some hack, but middle to upper end catalogues. When shooting  digital exposure's never a problem because you can see exactly what you have on your LCD screen, or computer screen when shooting tethered, by checking your image and your histogram so bracketing becomes unnecessary. All an experienced professional  should need is another four to five captures after some tweaking of the set or lighting. I fail to see how anyone other than an insecure hack could approach thousands of exposures a day.

4000 frames or captures a day means one approximately one frame or capture every 6 seconds all day long. The only type of photographer that could come anywhere near that is some rookie, hack  fashion shooter who doesn't know what the hell he wants and simply fires 8 frames a second all day long in  hopes of getting something usable. And in that case it's another 8 hours just to edit that many frames or captures.
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pss
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 12:27:19 PM »
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4000 frames or captures a day means one approximately one frame or capture every 6 seconds all day long. The only type of photographer that could come anywhere near that is some rookie, hack  fashion shooter who doesn't know what the hell he wants and simply fires 8 frames a second all day long in  hopes of getting something usable. And in that case it's another 8 hours just to edit that many frames or captures.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67591\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
i wasn't really going to respond, because everybody has a different way of working (i have never shot 4000 frames a day and trust me, i was the assistant, so i had to change film and handle it....not fun), but since you insist on insulting people here...the photographer in question was a very nice lady, running a (very profitable) studio in manhattan and who was by no means a rookie, hack fashion shooter....
i mean you probably live on a different planet..the place where the day has only 24000 seconds (or less then 7 hours) and not 86400 (24 hours) as we do here on earth....or maybe it is just your math...maybe you are just as off with your shot-count?...an example: 20 looks with one variation each (purse, no purse, hat , no hat, different shoes) 50 frames each comes to 2000 frames...and i don't think 50 frames is a lot...btw: i have never worked with anyone who would bracket on a catalogue shoot (on still life, yes of course)...in the days of film there were polaroids and clip tests...now there is no need for bracketing once you have the set-up...
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rsmphoto
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2006, 03:31:42 PM »
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Sheesh,

So much for this being a professional forum. You guys can fight all day about who "knows" more. What a waste. I'm outa here.


Quote from: pss,Jun 7 2006, 01:27 PM
4000 frames or captures a day means one approximately one frame or capture every 6 seconds all day long. The only type of photographer that could come anywhere near that is some rookie, hack  fashion shooter who doesn't know what the hell he wants and simply fires 8 frames a second all day long in  hopes of getting something usable. And in that case it's another 8 hours just to edit that many frames or captures.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67591\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i wasn't really going to respond, because everybody has a different way of working (i have never shot 4000 frames a day and trust me, i was the assistant, so i had to change film and handle it....not fun), but since you insist on insulting people here...the photographer in question was a very nice lady, running a (very profitable) studio in manhattan and who was by no means a rookie, hack fashion shooter....
i mean you probably live on a different planet..the place where the day has only 24000 seconds (or less then 7 hours) and not 86400 (24 hours) as we do here on earth....or maybe it is just your math...maybe you are just as off with your shot-count?...an example: 20 looks with one variation each (purse, no purse, hat , no hat, different shoes) 50 frames each comes to 2000 frames...and i don't think 50 frames is a lot...btw: i have never worked with anyone who would bracket on a catalogue shoot (on still life, yes of course)...in the days of film there were polaroids and clip tests...now there is no need for bracketing once you have the set-up...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 03:32:03 PM by rsmphoto » Logged
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