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pss
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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2006, 12:29:19 PM »
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As I alluded to in the first post that started this thread, I think Rollei's popularity in the United States is a false way of gauging their overall health. There are many products that do well in the combined global market that don't do quite as well in the U.S., but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is struggling. My belief is that since Rollei does quite well in other regions, there should be no fear of their future compared to the other surviving MF players. Add to that the outstanding nature of the product, and I think it's a solid choice. That 16MP Phase One bundle is a screaming deal, too--although I'm salivating at what Rollei might unveil at Photokina this fall since partnerships seem to be driving the MF digital market right now.
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rollei is actually very solid, they are in good shape...they are a very small company (very small compared to the fame of their brand) and actually the MF cameras are now Franke&Heidecke and the rest (lenses, digicams,..) is rollei (i believe)....i don't think that they can come out with big surprises, but they have been a very steady leader in MF innovation for decades (integrated winders and meters and AF)
the rollei/phase partnership ended because phase made rollei buy a certain number of backs, becuase phase had to make the backs to fit the rollei, rollei (being a small company) did not really like the fact that they had to buy so many in advance, but it gave rollei the chance to cut the price to make this such a deal (even better now)...because of the rollei backside, the phase backs cannot be rotated (they tried to fit a phase P25 into the rollei 645 back but it did not work, phase would have had to re-design the whole housing...)
which is where sinar and the emotion comes in...rollei contacted sinar, they said no problem (their backs already work with the rollei) they buy the backs as they go along (which is why the deal is not so great) but there is a straight upgrade path...if you buy the emotion 22? you can upgrade to the 75 for the difference in price...
the P20/6008af bundle shoots 45-50! frames a minute at 16bit 50-400asa (800 half size) and can be used as a point&shoot (completely automatic with 3 metering modes and AF) at a price comparable to the "canonkiller" mamiya DSLR which cannot compete with the rollei...for the expansive system please refer to ebay and several dealers....
i really don't know why people are afraid...there must be more rolleis  out there then mamiyas...they have been selling at a premium for decades and i never really heard stories (other then some technical problems with some early 6000s, i guess you can never get rid of a reputation...) of a bad product...and not to badmouth hasselblad, but my experience (and my experience as an assistant to many bigger and smaller photographers in NY) has been everything but good...thank god for the wide hasselblad rental service, because the equipment would fail, something would always fail, most of the people i worked for (not too many actually shot hasselblad, it was mostly RZ) had to have 2 complete set-ups, because one was always at the shop...a photographer compared it to ferrari, a great, fun but not dependable car(although i never saw the fun in hasselblad)....i never saw anything mamiya fail, never...and a story like the hasselblad zoom (at what...$7000?) falling apart? actually does not surprise me...but people are afraid of what might happen to rollei...nobody says that about leica...
look at the latest news: now canon and nikon do not build film cameras anymore...this does not kill leica, the contrary...kodak and fuji cut down on film production, no problem...labs switching to more digital services, great...there will always be a market for the 4x5 or 8x10 guy out there, a very specialized niche with great little niche products (probably a little more expensive)...leica will be there, voigtlander will be there, sinar will be there, rollei will be there....hasselblad will be there as well...the same guys who invented the whole thing and kept it going...becuase the people who build it and buy it don't look at the bottom line, otherwise they would have gotten out a looooong time ago, i don't think there was ever a moment when someone said, i want to get rich, i will make cameras using only the best materials and mechanics...
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ynp
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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2006, 06:06:20 AM »
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...becuase the people who build it and buy it don't look at the bottom line, otherwise they would have gotten out a looooong time ago, i don't think there was ever a moment when someone said, i want to get rich, i will make cameras using only the best materials and mechanics...
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I agree with Paul and APLA is a good example.

For more than 6 month I am a happy owner of a 6008AF with a Phase One with a P20 back. So happened that  it was not my first digital back. I have been a long time Hasselblad user and bought the eMotion22 Eyelike to supplement my 503 a year ago. It came with a V-mount adaptor and I was able to use it on my ALPA as well. Eyelike 22(Sinar) is a very solid product and after some weeks of struggling with the Eyelike capture pro software I was able to deliver good images (thank you Grant and all RG contributors for sharing your experience both with the back and software). Then a disaster happened, my son-in-law dropped my Alpa (with the back on!) while fiddling with it in the studio. I had to send it to Sinar to repare.
I live in Russia, there were no chances to fix the back in Moscow, almost zero rental market for digibacks and I was planning a trip to France to shoot an art and jewelry collection for a friend and client. I was almost ready to risk and bring my film cameras with me and even tried to rent a P25 back in Paris. They did not take me serious enough over the phone, demanded proofs of my residence in the EU. I felt fed up with been treated as a Russian crook, and after 2 days of telephone conversations I gave up and bought a Rollei 6008AF with P20db and 2 lenses in a Moscow shop. Yes, only 16m. pixels, square and no way to use on APLA. From some forum discussions I knew that I would not be able to upgrade from P20 and played with the idea that I would eventually sell it and use my trusted 503 with Eyelike and my extensive collection of glass.

Now I found myself left with 2 digital backs (eMotion came back from Switzerland with Sinar logos on it and a new screen) and P20 and Rollei. I have sold all my Hasselblad  gear and lenses and feel good. I have a reliable and modern film and digital system, fine lenses and hopes to upgrade my 22m to Sinar 75 with live video. Sinar people assured me that Rollei has future  and they will be working with Rollei together on new products. Jenoptik/Sinar/Rollei/Leica cooperation will bring new goods for Fotokina.
Yevgeny
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I share my studio with a commercial photographer and she has just bought her own Rollei/P20 combo and happy with her choice. She plans to use it alongside her Cannons for fashion and commercial work.
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BJNY
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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2006, 09:09:16 AM »
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...there are currently  several af lenses available: 50, 80,180, and one (or two?) zooms..the 90macro is coming this summer (in europe) fall in the US

Do you have further info about the AF Macro lens,
if it will remain 90mm focal length & APO,
or will it be 100mm instead (read that a while back on photo.net)
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Guillermo
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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2006, 11:48:32 AM »
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Do you have further info about the AF Macro lens,
if it will remain 90mm focal length & APO,
or will it be 100mm instead (read that a while back on photo.net)
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it will be the 100/3.5 symmar, my mistake...my opinion about the AF: reminds me of the old days with my nikon F4, when most of the lenses i owned were manual focus and i kept checking the focus giude in the finder..same with rollei...i don't think that AF in medium format really work (for me)...i use it more with my canon (if i use the canon) but even there i find myself having to compose around the focus points and that is way more anoying then focussing manually...rollei has some of the fastest lenses (a 80 2.0, 110 2.0, 180 2.Cool so i really is not that hard...
the only camera that i thought really had it worked out was a canon (film) camera with the eye-controlled focus...it really worked well (the focus was a little slow, but it was an inexpensive consumer body), i wonder what happend to that technology? i would love to see that in the next 1Ds mkIII?
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ynp
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2006, 10:25:33 AM »
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it will be the 100/3.5 symmar,

I ordered a new 150/4 AF Tele-Xenar PQ lens which was announced a long time ago and was expected this spring. Still waiting. Now they are saying that the lens will be shipped before Fotokina.  I am not sure that Rillei has  an AF Apo-Symmar in the pipeline , it will be a nice surprise !  I agree that AF is too slow and the range of manual lenses covers all needs.
Yevgeny
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2006, 03:33:01 AM »
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As I alluded to in the first post that started this thread, I think Rollei's popularity in the United States is a false way of gauging their overall health. There are many products that do well in the combined global market that don't do quite as well in the U.S., but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is struggling. My belief is that since Rollei does quite well in other regions, there should be no fear of their future compared to the other surviving MF players. Add to that the outstanding nature of the product, and I think it's a solid choice. That 16MP Phase One bundle is a screaming deal, too--although I'm salivating at what Rollei might unveil at Photokina this fall since partnerships seem to be driving the MF digital market right now.
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2006, 04:19:16 AM »
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Kipdent,

I have been shooting with a Rollei 6008 Integral for the past three years, and have been quite happy with the results.  Prior to obtaining the Rollei, I tried a Hasselblad 203FE and a Contax 645, but chose to go with the Rollei 6008 platform.  What attracted me to Rollei was the availability of the fast lenses from both Schneider and Zeiss.  The 80mm 2.0 Schneider Xenotar, the Zeiss 110mm 2.0 Planar, and the 180mm 2.8 Schneider Tele Xenar are amongst my favorite lenses.  Many of the Rollei lenses made by Zeiss have the same optical formula as the Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad.  It is the bokeh that these German made lenses produce that give the images that different punch so to speak.  Furthermore, with the Rollei 6008 film inserts, I can change a roll of 120 film and be advanced to the first frame of a new roll in about 12 seconds. It would be extremely difficult to do that with any other medium format system.  

With the new Sinar emotion digital back now available with the Rollei 6008AF, digital shooters now have a tool that will compete with the best digital backs out there.  

For that person who was trying to get a diopter for a Rollei 45 degree prism, Martin at Marflex in New Jersey has them available or Robert White (www.robertwhite.co.uk) in Dorset has them available since he is now the Rollei distributor for the UK.
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RicAgu
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2006, 06:53:49 PM »
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Ahhh the Great Rollie!

The Rollie 6008 was my first professional system out of High School.  I had Pentax 67's and the only thing that could come close was the 6008 in lens speed.  I had the 50/2.8 - 80/2.0 - 180/2.8 and other macro and long lenses.  You couldn't beat the quality of the glass and the laminar draw slide was brilliant!

My main problem was the battery was a pain in the butt with no other option.  So I had to carry around six batteries two chargers and a car charger.  Also, this was before eBay in the early mid 90's and I coudln't pick up a second body for less than $6k!  Now I could buy three bodies for that price.  They are built like tanks. but as anything with tiny electronics in it.  It will fail at some point.  Especially the way commercial shooters man handle things.

So I am on a job in Venezuela and the body just stops working.  Now this has since happened with my RZ but I always had a second body in the bag as well as with my Contax and always had two bodies of any system I used.   Other than Pentax where seven bodies were in order.  On this trip my Rollie went down in the middle of the jungle with no 35mm body or any other body with me ( I know stupid).  Major job as well for a world wide campaign shooting at Angel Falls.  So we went down to the little town and met with the local portrait guy.  What does he have?  A mint museum quality Mamiya RB set up with every lens I could want and every accs made for it.  So after some convincing (thank GOD i speak Spanish) he loaned it to me.  I left him my Rollie and came back two days later.  Prior to this experience I was not the biggest Mamiya fan.  But after that I switched to everything RZ.  Took a little getting use to, but what doesn't.  

I would LOVE to see Rollie come back.  The lenses are great!  The view finder is Awesome with prism or not.  I did try the AF version and it SUCKED!  The autofocus was slower than my GA645i.  But if they could get a rotating back on there I would consider that system.  The guys at Marflex in early 90's were awesome.

I really use the auto focus on my H1 and have discovered the custom functions that let me assign a button to autofocus,  I still use my RZ on occasion with my digital 22mp back from the H1 adapted with a plate from Eco Digital.  The H1 was the lesser of two evils and it still has yet to fail me.  I drove over to Hassy in Jersey and they did the software upgrade in about 15 minutes.  Got out of the city for a few hours and felt like I was on vacation.

Rollies marketing in the US does suck, the rental stock is non existant.  So that does make a difference.  I too like to own all my gear, but there are those rare pieces that you may want to call in for one or two days.

It would be great for a group to buy Sinar, Rollie, Lieca and combine the best of them all and make a killer system.  Instead of Sinar wasting the millions on development that I am sure they spent on that horrid Modular attempt to go after the medium format sytems.  They should have offered to work with Rollie and redevelop a new body to work with 645 chips.  If the Germans can be third in the World Cup, then I am sure they can redesign the 6008AF a bit ;-).  It could not be more expensive than an H1 set up  or the Sinar Modular system.  I am still waitiing to see what Mamiya comes out with at Photokina.

I still think that in a few years we will see some bigger chips with better ISO and noise handling but peaking at the MP wars.

Best of luck with your Rollie hunt.  They are great systems other than the battery set up.  But at least their lenses don't fall apart.  I am sure the Schneider and Ziess glass is as good for digital as the Fujacon's.  Plus if you go eMotion the dals chip is pretty damn nice!  I used the Aptus 75 and was blown away at 800.  Although Sinar only goes to 400.

Any billionairs out there that want to buy Sinar, Rollie, Leeca and Dalsa?
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2006, 04:43:18 AM »
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The Rollei 6008 bodies use a rechargable battery that provides approximately enough power for 35-40 rolls of 120 film.  For most photo shoots, having a fully charged battery in the body and one extra fully charged battery is enough for probably most applications.  

For extreme applications where one might be away from AC power for an extended period of time, there is available from Rollei a battery pack which uses 10 standard AA batteries, or the new battery box from Rollei which uses 5 DL 123 lithium batteries.
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2006, 11:43:17 AM »
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"But if they could get a rotating back on there I would consider that system."


They already do if you use the Sinar eMotion.

I wouldn't consider any other system and now that they do a battery charger that drains residual current before recharging you get a lot more shots, also bear in mind that the battery is powering the mirror and shutter only rather than pulling the film across the back. It lasts a lot longer before you have to change the battery.

Besides the fast lenses you also get the fast shutter speed of 1000s if you use PQS lenses.

A wonderful system!


Carl
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