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Author Topic: canon ipf5000  (Read 14702 times)
nigeldh
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2006, 11:08:08 PM »
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Perhaps Mark could be persuaded to conduct a cost analysis on ink usage for the new Canon.
... deleted
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Mike missed it but the iPF500 print log shows ink usage according to the Red River Paper website, look at the end of their review: www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/articles/canonprografipf5000.html

Nigel
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aussiephil
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« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2006, 09:39:28 AM »
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Nigel and others that are interested.

whilst the job log seems to have a limit of the last 32 print jobs, i believe it can still be constructively used to gain a better understanding of ink usage.

I have written a parsing script to take the contents and make database rows, this will allow for stats to be gathered on ink usage based on Paper type and volume

Here's an example of the processed file before adding to a db.

Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:33:56pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:31|2006/06/30 21:35|255|297|420|124740|Coated Paper|USB|1.1
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:14|2006/06/30 21:20|329|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.5
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:12|2006/06/30 21:15|142|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.4
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:08|2006/06/30 21:13|298|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.2
Qimage - 06/30/2006 08:24:24pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 20:21|2006/06/30 20:25|244|297|420|124740|Coated Paper|USB|1.0
Qimage - 06/30/2006 06:52:40pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 18:53|2006/06/30 18:55|164|210|297|62370|High Resolution|USB|0.4
Qimage - 06/30/2006 06:52:40pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 18:49|2006/06/30 18:53|254|210|297|62370|High Resolution|USB|0.3

The last numbers are mls of ink.

I plan to put this into a web published DB, with totals and averages for overall and by paper type.

If other iPF5000 users would like to send their log files to me at
support@incanberra.biz
i will add the data to the db so we can all have a better guess at ink usage.

anyone interested?
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bob mccarthy
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« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2006, 11:10:02 AM »
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A bundle!

But you can take some consolation in the fact that if you are a slave to your printer and you keep it busy just about every day henceforth, you will be able to amortize that investment in cleaning over a larger volume of prints.
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Really the Epson is best in a high usage situation. We use our Epson 7600, nearly every day and each job is lots of Sq ft. I can't remember the last clog we had. It has functioned flawlessly.

My 2200 is a pain in the arse, clogs up frequently, but then it is used intermittantly.

If Canon or HP solves the nozzle clogging issue, it will be a real advantage over Espon for the average user.

Bob
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 11:12:26 AM by bob mccarthy » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2006, 04:00:56 PM »
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Nigel and others that are interested.

I plan to put this into a web published DB, with totals and averages for overall and by paper type.

If other iPF5000 users would like to send their log files to me at
support@incanberra.biz
i will add the data to the db so we can all have a better guess at ink usage.

anyone interested?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I buy this printer I would be interested in working with you on this, but I am seriously considering cancelling my order for this printer until Canon sorts out the key problems identified to date. Generally the language these corporations understand best is money.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
aussiephil
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2006, 06:25:34 AM »
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If I buy this printer I would be interested in working with you on this, but I am seriously considering cancelling my order for this printer until Canon sorts out the key problems identified to date. Generally the language these corporations understand best is money.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

Well, if you do continue with your order, i would be happy to accept your input, i should have the page up in the next couple of days. I need to refresh my mysql/php memory.

Sadly, one person here, one there will not be enough for Canon to care as there are a large number of people like myself that are ready to move up to 17" or wider and are not prepared to go to Epson with the highly talked about clogging and cleaning cycle issues not to mention the black change.

cheers
Phil
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2006, 04:01:37 PM »
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Phil,
I would not get too spooked about rants that have increasingly emerged about Epson printer problems now the IPF Canons have come onto the market. The Epsons are superb printers. The 800 series with the K3 inkset do not clog nearly as often as the previous models using the Ultrachrome (K2) inks . Mark's excellent analysis highlights this and my experience with the Epson 4000 and the 9800 says the same thing. Problems are minimal if printers are turned off once a day , directions to Power Clean are ignored, and a couple of 50% grey (or substitute ) sheets are printed whenever small gaps appear in the tests. Most clogging under average user conditions occurs because loose crap has collided with the printing head. Dust covers will reduce this, as will electrostatic dust removers in the studio. The worst culprits are the fine art papers with loose surfaces and particularly fibres at the ends of rolls or the edges of sheets. These can be reduced by careful vacuuming when the material is first unpacked, and in the case of some manufacturers products , the vacuuming of each sheet or roll section to be printed, just prior to printing.
Of course any ink application technology that reduces these tedious measures is most welcome.
The ink swop problem is a real pain for which Epson deserve a rap over the knuckles. It was only a matter of time before someone did it , and Canon has stepped in.
There is a tendency to leap onto new offerings and turn against the old love.
With market pressure, particularly from company bean counters, many new products are prematurely released.
This may not be the case with the new Canon printers, but indicates that caution is sensible.
We must be assured that colour output is consistent before moving to these printers.
If we have to wait a week for inks to stabilise, then no one in a production environment will touch these things. The much more rapid stabilisation of the K3 inkset over the K2 was a major reason to upgrade to the latest Epson printers. No one would move backwards for a marginal increase in printing speed (at highest quality) and a small increase, perhaps purity in blues (offset by less red gamut) and dubious advantages of 12 bit data flow. Any other reasons for colour inconsistency , if firmly established, are more serious.
The black swop problem has to be , and I believe will be, addressed by Epson.
Both companies should be searching for a better matte black. Eboni ink indicates this is possible.
Mark's caution is wise.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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nigeldh
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« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2006, 04:10:36 AM »
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...
Sadly, one person here, one there will not be enough for Canon to care as there are a large number of people like myself that are ready to move up to 17" or wider and are not prepared to go to Epson with the highly talked about clogging and cleaning cycle issues not to mention the black change.

cheers
Phil
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Phil,
Speaking of clogged ink heads, many folks have said that with an Epson 4800 etc. it is foolish not to buy the service contract. One ink head replacement and one has more than recovered the service contract cost.

With a Canon iPF5000 etc the ink head is an FRU, field replaceable unit. A cost advantage for the Canon iPF5000 that I haven't seen mentioned before.

Plus with a Canon, the first set of full cartridges may be ~$US 900 but you are buying 12, not 6. And you are probably not going to buy all the cartridges at once but say a couple at a time.

And thanks for offering to do an ink usage web page.

Nigel
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aussiephil
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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2006, 08:01:36 AM »
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Phil,
I would not get too spooked about rants that have increasingly emerged about Epson printer problems now the IPF Canons have come onto the market. The Epsons are superb printers.
Mark's caution is wise.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69600\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brian,

I was personally not spooked by all the rants but it was fairly obvious that constant use was a near mandatory requirement, how well the Canon does on this is yet to be seen, guess i will be a guinea pig on this.
My usage for personal use will be sporadic but when i print i print quite a bit so it will be an interesting journey anyway.

I have profiled my various papers using PrintFix Pro and i now have consistant colours across the range of papers i use, i will reprofile in about three weeks to check  i guess.

Using both Gloss and Matte papers on a regular basis meant the Epson was a no go for me.

I have just finished printing a sample pack from an Austalian paper manufacturer to see what i like, pity they only sent me one A4 sheet of each paper.

I understand and agree with your comments on stability of output for professional use though.

Cheers
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aussiephil
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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2006, 08:13:52 AM »
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Phil,
 at a time.

And thanks for offering to do an ink usage web page.

Nigel
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Nigel - All

A basic page is now available at

[a href=\"http://www.incanberra.biz/ppweb/ipf5000inkusage.html]http://www.incanberra.biz/ppweb/ipf5000inkusage.html[/url]

I have grouped and sub totalled by paper type with totals on the last page.
just noticed that the column heading don't line up, (to be fixed)

Cheers
Phil
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leonvick
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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2006, 11:41:29 PM »
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How the printer behaves in terms of clogging is indeed key also. I didn't have much time to print recently, and had to go through a power clean up, 3 nozzles clean up and print 2 A2 prints until I got a decent print from my 4000 this afternoon... I don't even want to know much the 4 images I printed today will end up costing...

Hey Bernard,
I'm with you all the way on this one. I haven't had as much work to do on my 4000 recently as previously and now find that several inks have clogged every time I want to make a print -- if it's been more than a few days since the last print. Like you, I don't want to know what it's really costing me, but my guess is that I'm now spending more money on cleaning heads than on making prints. If the iPF5000 has substantially fewer problems with clogged inks it will save me money just sitting unused! It's no secret that Epson has created a cash cow with their replacement ink income, but I'm tired of being milked.
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Leon
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2006, 01:38:11 AM »
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Quote from: leonvick,Jul 3 2006, 04:41 AM
Hey Bernard,
I'm with you all the way on this one. I haven't had as much work to do on my 4000 recently as previously and now find that several inks have clogged every time I want to make a print -- if it's been more than a few days since the last print. Like you, I don't want to know what it's really costing me, but my guess is that I'm now spending more money on cleaning heads than on making prints. If the iPF5000 has substantially fewer problems with clogged inks it will save me money just sitting unused! It's no secret that Epson has created a cash cow with their replacement ink income, but I'm tired of being milked.




Hi Leon,
I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.
A damp (not wet!) towell over the machine is a low cost possibility.
To avoid the problem in an alternative world more humidicants are added to the inks. This may well be part if Canons solution. If so there will probably be slower drying, longer times to obtain colour stability and more outgassing.
There are early indications that this may be the case.
Let's wait a while..
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 10:31:09 AM »
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I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.
A damp (not wet!) towell over the machine is a low cost possibility.

Based on what I've seen, I'd guess that humidity might very well help.  I've read various peoples' complaints about Epson's 2200 clogging, but I don't recall mine even once having a clogged print head in the several years I've had it, despite frequently not being turned on for several weeks at a time (sometimes even a month).  This is my third or fourth Epson photo printer over the years, and I've never had clogged heads more than a couple of times.  However, I live in a coastal climate that never gets very dry; that may be the difference.

(For that matter, Japan, home of Epson's headquarters, is a pretty damp place too.  Maybe clogging is just never a problem for the printer designers.)

Lisa
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leonvick
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« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2006, 04:07:44 PM »
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I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.

The climate here is much like nearby Las Vegas: hot in the summer and dry the year around. So I looked up some humidifier data and may give one a try. They're a lot cheaper than a new printer and the 4000 is a most satisfactory printer anyway -- when it works. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know what I do and how it works out...
 
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Leon
Wherever I go, there I am.
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