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Author Topic: Aptus 65 vs Phase P30 decision  (Read 6984 times)
oscar falero
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« on: June 04, 2006, 08:11:17 AM »
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In the next few weeks I will be making a decision to purchase a MF system. I am looking into the the Aptus 65(not tested it yet) or a Phase P30 system(tested it).

Are there any users of the Leaf Aptus 65 in the forum and can you share some of your experiences? Did you compare  the A65 to the P30.

I shoot lifetyle and people advertising work and although a full frame would be best, at this time I don't want to make that kind of investment.

I currently use a Canon 1Ds MK2 & MK1 on the digital end. For film I mostly used RZ and Hassy 503 but no longer have an investment in them. I understand that both units require cables and adapters(RZ) so for this reason I will likely go with the Mamiya 645 option (not excited about).

Thanks
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mcfoto
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 08:34:06 AM »
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Quote from: oscar falero,Jun 4 2006, 08:11 AM
In the next few weeks I will be making a decision to purchase a MF system. I am looking into the the Aptus 65(not tested it yet) or a Phase P30 system(tested it).

Are there any users of the Leaf Aptus 65 in the forum and can you share some of your experiences? Did you compare  the A65 to the P30.

I shoot lifetyle and people advertising work and although a full frame would be best, at this time I don't want to make that kind of investment.

I currently use a Canon 1Ds MK2 & MK1 on the digital end. For film I mostly used RZ and Hassy 503 but no longer have an investment in them. I understand that both units require cables and adapters(RZ) so for this reason I will likely go with the Mamiya 645 option (not excited about).

Hi
I rent the Aptus 22 for my mamiya 645 AFDII. This is an excellent back. What I have read and heard first hand is the DALSA chip in the 65 & 75 is a new generation DALSA chip. It has superior higher iso ratings 400 & 800. I have seen iso 400 files with the Aptus 75 and they were amazing!!! The Aptus 65 is the same chip only smaller in phyiscial size. As far as the Mamiya 645 AFD goes it is a great camera with excellent lens quality at a very good price. We have shot bill boards with this camera on the Aptus 22.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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oscar falero
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 11:24:37 AM »
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Thank for your response Denis,

What are you using to convert the Raw files the Leaf software or Adobe Camera Raw?

Good to hear that the Mamiya is working out for you? The lack of WLF was a big turn off for me but so is cables hanging out of the camera on a Hassy 503. I don't care for the H1 and very expensive as well.

Everyone seems to say that the A65 is a cropped A75 sensor and that the P30 is cropped from the P45, yet the at the same time they mention wide angle behavior on the smaller sensors is different because of the micro lenses in the sensor.  It is very confusing and the only way is to try it for myself.

I seek the opinions of the users in this forum since I have not been able to get a hold of an Aptus 65 and perhaps someone might have or is doing the same homework.  I reached my limit of patience with the Canon 1DsMK2 and the countless hours of post processing is crazy.

Thanks again,
Oscar
www.oscarfalero.com
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MarkKay
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 07:00:32 PM »
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I have had one on order since May 2nd.  I was  told a nother couple of weeks or so. SOrry i cannot help you yet. mark

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Thank for your response Denis,

What are you using to convert the Raw files the Leaf software or Adobe Camera Raw?

Good to hear that the Mamiya is working out for you? The lack of WLF was a big turn off for me but so is cables hanging out of the camera on a Hassy 503. I don't care for the H1 and very expensive as well.

Everyone seems to say that the A65 is a cropped A75 sensor and that the P30 is cropped from the P45, yet the at the same time they mention wide angle behavior on the smaller sensors is different because of the micro lenses in the sensor.  It is very confusing and the only way is to try it for myself.

I seek the opinions of the users in this forum since I have not been able to get a hold of an Aptus 65 and perhaps someone might have or is doing the same homework.  I reached my limit of patience with the Canon 1DsMK2 and the countless hours of post processing is crazy.

Thanks again,
Oscar
www.oscarfalero.com
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mcfoto
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 07:02:37 PM »
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Quote from: oscar falero,Jun 5 2006, 11:24 AM
Thank for your response Denis,

What are you using to convert the Raw files the Leaf software or Adobe Camera Raw?

Hi
we use the Leaf software for processing. I am keen to try the RAW processor as it has been getting great reviews. It is a better proceesor for the ZD but it still needs a proper colour profile which is coming.
the Leaf processor is excellent.
thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 08:52:41 PM »
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Everyone seems to say that the A65 is a cropped A75 sensor and that the P30 is cropped from the P45, yet the at the same time they mention wide angle behavior on the smaller sensors is different because of the micro lenses in the sensor.  It is very confusing and the only way is to try it for myself.


Thanks again,
Oscar
www.oscarfalero.com
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Oscar:

The Aptus 65 is indeed a smaller version of the same chip in the Aptus 75. The P30, on the other hand, is a completely different chip than the P45, and different in a very significant way. You mentioned microlenses. The Aptus 75 and Aptus 65 do not have microlenses. Neither does the P45. The P30 does have microlenses. And if you intend to photograph with any type of camera movements, particularly at wide angle, youshould steer clear of the P30. The microlenses will present significant issues with color casts.

To a lesser degree, you can also get color casts with P45's and the Leaf Aptus backs. However, Phase One uses Kodak sensors, Leaf uses Dalsa. Due to the sensor technology, specifically the depth of the photoreceptors, the Dalsa sensor is less prone to color casts when shooting wide angle or using camera movements.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 12:41:12 AM »
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MarkKay
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 04:03:24 PM »
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Steve I assume you have tested the aptus75 and 65.  When using on a view camera, how much more limited are the movement capabilities with the 65.  Mark  

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Oscar:

The Aptus 65 is indeed a smaller version of the same chip in the Aptus 75. The P30, on the other hand, is a completely different chip than the P45, and different in a very significant way. You mentioned microlenses. The Aptus 75 and Aptus 65 do not have microlenses. Neither does the P45. The P30 does have microlenses. And if you intend to photograph with any type of camera movements, particularly at wide angle, youshould steer clear of the P30. The microlenses will present significant issues with color casts.

To a lesser degree, you can also get color casts with P45's and the Leaf Aptus backs. However, Phase One uses Kodak sensors, Leaf uses Dalsa. Due to the sensor technology, specifically the depth of the photoreceptors, the Dalsa sensor is less prone to color casts when shooting wide angle or using camera movements.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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pprdigital
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 05:01:58 PM »
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Steve I assume you have tested the aptus75 and 65.  When using on a view camera, how much more limited are the movement capabilities with the 65.  Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, because it's a smaller sensor size (film plane) you would have more movement, would you not? You would have less field of view coverage.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 07:55:57 PM »
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Oscar:

The Aptus 65 is indeed a smaller version of the same chip in the Aptus 75. The P30, on the other hand, is a completely different chip than the P45, and different in a very significant way. You mentioned microlenses. The Aptus 75 and Aptus 65 do not have microlenses. Neither does the P45. The P30 does have microlenses. And if you intend to photograph with any type of camera movements, particularly at wide angle, youshould steer clear of the P30. The microlenses will present significant issues with color casts.

To a lesser degree, you can also get color casts with P45's and the Leaf Aptus backs. However, Phase One uses Kodak sensors, Leaf uses Dalsa. Due to the sensor technology, specifically the depth of the photoreceptors, the Dalsa sensor is less prone to color casts when shooting wide angle or using camera movements.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have seen the P30 perform beautifully on a H1 with a 35mm lens. Also from what I understand the microlenses actually give you better higher iso performance.

On the comment about color casts on BOTH chips the Kodak and Dalsa, I know that Phase One has a tool to take care of any cast if present and have also come up with new profiles 'easy gray' that take care of this , does Leaf have anything in thier software/hardware for correction of any casts?

The best advice I can give is to test them both out yourself to see if you can live with any short comings from any back (there is not one magic bullet out there) . They are both good systems but what it comes down to is your preference of which file you like best and also workflow.

A lot of these shoot-outs between competive products unless done by an independent third party are pretty much not worth anything except for scrap paper.

M
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pprdigital
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 08:49:12 PM »
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On the comment about color casts on BOTH chips the Kodak and Dalsa, I know that Phase One has a tool to take care of any cast if present and have also come up with new profiles 'easy gray' that take care of this , does Leaf have anything in thier software/hardware for correction of any casts?

The best advice I can give is to test them both out yourself to see if you can live with any short comings from any back (there is not one magic bullet out there) . They are both good systems but what it comes down to is your preference of which file you like best and also workflow.

A lot of these shoot-outs between competive products unless done by an independent third party are pretty much not worth anything except for scrap paper.

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

M:

Every digital back (Phase One, Hasselblad, Leaf, Sinar) provides a tool to eliminate the color cast. In general, they all work in the same way.

You are absolutely correct regarding testing product yourself and the lack of validy concerning non-independent shoot-out results.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
MarkKay
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 04:12:47 PM »
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Leaf shipped my back yesterday but unfortunately they goofed and sent it ground instead of 2 day air... so by next weekend...

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I have had one on order since May 2nd.  I was  told a nother couple of weeks or so. SOrry i cannot help you yet. mark
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jamie_m_
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2006, 03:46:26 AM »
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When I started planning to upgrade from my 1Ds I rented Leaf 22 and P25 on Mamiya.

I found the transition from Canon to Mamiya/Phase one fairly painless and ended up buying Mamiya/P30 ... there was a special offer on at the time.

Another thing that helped me settle on Phase One was the Phase One local dealership seemed to offer a much better purchasing experience, giving me confidence that if there was a problem in the future they would get me working again quickly.

I would say that after working with the Mamiya/P30 for a couple of months I am more that happy with the results and glad that I saved 8000 buying the P30 instead of the more expensive P45
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MyMoodPhotography
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oscar falero
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2006, 09:10:41 AM »
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When I started planning to upgrade from my 1Ds I rented Leaf 22 and P25 on Mamiya.

I found the transition from Canon to Mamiya/Phase one fairly painless and ended up buying Mamiya/P30 ... there was a special offer on at the time.

Another thing that helped me settle on Phase One was the Phase One local dealership seemed to offer a much better purchasing experience, giving me confidence that if there was a problem in the future they would get me working again quickly.

I would say that after working with the Mamiya/P30 for a couple of months I am more that happy with the results and glad that I saved 8000 buying the P30 instead of the more expensive P45
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Glad to hear about your good experience with P30 and the Mamiya. I too will be going from a Canon 1ds Mk2 to a DB.

After a few months of going back and forth I finally made the purchase of a Leaf Aptus 65. Once I knew that my only options were the P30 and the Aptus 65 both cropped sensors. It came down to the microlenses in the P30 and its negative effect when using any form of shift.

I too had a great purchasing experience from Steve Hendrix at PPR digital. I urge any thinking of making a purchase of any back PHASE or LEAF to find a reputable & knowledgeable dealer.  One who can bring back feedback from other professionals in the field not just the manufacturer.

The reality is that the quality and technology gap has narrowed among the current offerings in MFDBs and we as photographer can feel a great degree of assurance as we did when buying the higher end Canon's & Nikons.

I will share my experiences once I take delivery of the back.  Thanks to all those who responded.

Oscar Falero
www.oscarfalero.com
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johnkraus
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2006, 06:32:11 AM »
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Leaf shipped my back yesterday but unfortunately they goofed and sent it ground instead of 2 day air... so by next weekend...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67796\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark what are your impressions of the Aptus 65, particularly shooting at ISO 400?

Thanks-
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