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Author Topic: Ilford have just gone bust  (Read 5821 times)
Del
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« on: August 25, 2004, 09:28:57 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I don't know that this is the end of the world as we know it exactly.  I am uncertain if receivership in the UK is the same as bankruptcy here in the USA, but if that is the case, a strong recovery plan that enacts some tough choices, can result in a company that has a future.  Let's hope so.[/font]
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2004, 02:01:42 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I'm surprised that demand for Ilford products is dropping off so fast. B&W photogs are not usually the type to go digital I had thought.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']I do a lot of B&W stuff, and I'm 100% digital. Digital offers far wider avenues of creative expression than film; shooting digital and converting to B&W in post is like being able to select the film, filter, and print paper after the fact in Photoshop. This is a much better paradigm than film, where you are committed to the film and filter choice at the time of the shot, and have limited recourse if the results are not what you wanted.[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2004, 05:08:08 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']HOWEVER, I have yet to find a B&W digital output device that delivers as good a result as traditional wet-processed, fiber-based B&W paper ::[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']There are some places that run real B&W print paper through LightJets. I've seen this offered online, I just don't have the URL handy. It may be worth googling...[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2004, 03:39:54 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Actually, it's a digital-to-film recording process. Google LVT for details and pricing.[/font]
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etmpasadena
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2004, 03:42:08 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lff...pic/497522.html


BJL,

Stop being such a cynic! Seriously . . . Running fibre prints through a Lightjet or Lamda is new. In fact, it was just the other day where on Photonet an employee from Elevator said he could finally offer an opinion on their process after making serveral hundred prints. Please see the above link for the full discussion. This isn't a process, as far as I can tell, that's at all mainstream. I would imagine 200 dpi isn't bad because the rough texture of the fibre paper tends to breakdown fine detail. So I'm not sure what you'd be gaining with 300 dpi.
Anyway, the other labs I mentioned above print at 300 dpi and Reed Photo has an older LightJet that can print at 406 dpi, if that makes you feel any better. [/font]
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gsrees
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2004, 02:22:08 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Not sure if this is the right place to post this - a bit shocked - as it has just been on the UK news that Ilford have filed for bankrupcy with 40M debts and are now in administration while a new owner is sought. Bummer, I love ilford films for my Xpan mono landsape work.

see http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPac....finance
 [/font]
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Del
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2004, 09:27:32 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I don't know that this is the end of the world as we know it exactly.  I am uncertain if receivership in the UK is the same as bankruptcy here in the USA, but if that is the case, a strong recovery plan that bites a lot of bullets, can result in a company that has a future.  Let's hope so.[/font]
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Del
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2004, 10:03:21 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I hope you're right Del.

I'm surprised that demand for Ilford products is dropping off so fast.  B&W photogs are not usually the type to go digital I had thought.

I've just started to use Ilford stuff!  Delta 3200 = yummy  Smiley[/font]
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Jason Elias
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BJL
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2004, 01:17:40 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']It seems that traditional emulsion monochrome films like FP4 and HP5 can be made on a small scale by small companies, though "new tech." stuff like Delta may be harder.

So as one of those people who has gone digital for everything except a bit of playing in the black and white darkroom, I hope that the "receivers" find a buyer for FP4 and HP5 at least, to give the creditors a few pence on the pound. In years to come, maybe specialist, enthusiast suppliers (like Zone 6) will buy product rights and maintain small scale production of films dropped by the bigger companies.[/font]
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etmpasadena
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2004, 04:08:43 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']What we really need is for some software company to wrap all the B&W conversions into a great package. I'd love to have a group of conversion techniques and filters in a single software program.[/font]
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etmpasadena
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2004, 04:22:31 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Agfa is selling its film division.

http://www.iht.com/articles/534773.html[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2004, 05:00:23 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']What we really need is for some software company to wrap all the B&W conversions into a great package. I'd love to have a group of conversion techniques and filters in a single software program.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']http://theimagingfactory.com

Find Convert To B&W Pro and give it a 30-day test drive for free. It is exactly that.[/font]
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BJL
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2004, 03:09:01 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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(1) www.elevatordigital.ca (Their Lambda runs at 200 dpi. But ...
Does anyone care to comment on the significance of an apparently high end printing operation working at 200DPI except when a higher setting is special ordered? Especially given what we hear from some quarters about about 300DPI being the standard for magazine printing and such.

Is Elevator Digital incompetent, or a cheap, nasty, low budget operation?

Or does 200DPI give good enough quality for a large proportion professional photographic printing purposes when done with Lambda technology (laser writing onto photographic paper?) as opposed to inkjet or such?

Or some other option, like that they are mainly doing very large images where lower DPI is needed?


I am wondering whether this is another example of "cognitive dissonance" between what works in the real world and what gets claimed in some internet forums.[/font]
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BJL
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2004, 05:34:54 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Jonathan is probably right about the practical advantages of digital B&W; I have only dabbled, and like the results. But it is like telling someone to abandon the hobby of painting; I just enjoy the activity of darkroom printmaking. Perhaps I am addicted to acetic acid fumes. Let's see, maybe I could use digital capture, convert to B&W with the "HP5" setting, print onto film, and then use that to print onto paper ...[/font]
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BJL
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2004, 03:18:05 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']LVT film transfer, then contact prints.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']Is LVT a high end version of making an inkjet print onto overhead projector sheets? That could be quite nice, letting me pretend to be working with bigger than 8"x10" large format, and avoiding worries like enlarging lens performance.[/font]
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Quentin
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2004, 04:57:20 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']What we really need is for some software company to wrap all the B&W conversions into a great package. I'd love to have a group of conversion techniques and filters in a single software program.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']Up to a point, you can with Convert to B&W Pro from

www.theimagingfactory.com

Quentin[/font]
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2004, 06:14:18 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']This is really sad news. The digital revolution is a wonderful thing, but every silver lining has a cloud.[/font]
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2004, 11:05:37 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Unfortunately with the advent of HQ digital that we have now, I think this was only a matter of time.  Even Kodak and Fuji made announcements that they were not going to be putting more effort into future film advancement technologies.  A small-ish company like Illford didn't stand a chance.  

I think you may see some niche producers come forward with a similar set of emulsions -- but they will likely be small produciton runs and pricey as a true "art" medium.  Traditional B&W will continue as an "alternative process" for the dedicated artist -- which is kind of a weird reversal IMO.

I further predict E6 emulsions will fall next, and C41 may have another 5 years of commercial viability tops.  It will then go the way of Applied Science Fictions destructive processing technology.

There just isn't any money in it anymore for the big boys, and the future prospects for increases do not look promising.

Cheers,
Jack[/font]
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2004, 04:42:51 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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I'm surprised that demand for Ilford products is dropping off so fast. B&W photogs are not usually the type to go digital I had thought.
I do a lot of B&W stuff, and I'm 100% digital. Digital offers far wider avenues of creative expression than film; shooting digital and converting to B&W in post is like being able to select the film, filter, and print paper after the fact in Photoshop. This is a much better paradigm than film, where you are committed to the film and filter choice at the time of the shot, and have limited recourse if the results are not what you wanted.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']Jonathan -- as usual you and I agree totally on this...

HOWEVER, I have yet to find a B&W digital output device that delivers as good a result as traditional wet-processed, fiber-based B&W paper ::

And don't get me wrong, I think some of the current RIPs for the 76/9600 are very good, but they only work in matte finishes at present and I like luster.  Nor do I have ANY desire to go back to a traditional darkroom just to print B&W  Cheesy[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2004, 12:29:36 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']LVT film transfer, then contact prints.[/font]
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