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Author Topic: First Timer!  (Read 3061 times)
Ben Rubinstein
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« on: July 09, 2006, 11:34:47 AM »
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I'm on the point of switching to printed A4 sheets of photographic paper for use as proofing sheets which will be then bound into a nice hardback book (actually very cheap at your local universities thesis binding service) and presented to my wedding clients as their proofing book.

I've tried offset services such as Illuma Memory books but the paper, the printing quality and the colour have been found wanting by my clients and pushing a service that the client doesn't like is the business equivelent of comitting suicide! I have until now been giving chemical prints in a slip in album but all too often I never hear from the couple again as they are divided up among the family or having real and loose photographic prints does not inspire thinking of future orders.

I thought of having the pages printed at my local lab but I have a price requirement which they are having trouble matching plus the size, 12X8" is not standard for the bookbinders and hence there is an extra charge.

I'll tell you what I'm looking for and you tell me if you can help me at all.

I need an A4 printer, not bigger, I don't have the space or need for any larger sizes, it is only with bulk printing (I will be printing a minimum of 100 sheets at a time) that it could be considered economical.

I need colour printing on ARCHIVAL matte paper that is as vibrant, colour true (I am familiar with calibration) preferably with the original printer software and not an expensive RIP) as the Fuji Crystal Archive or Kodak Endura Matte papers that I'm used to. I realise that inkjet isn't going to look like chemical prints but the prints/paper must look photographic and not 'consumer inkjet', I need something which is on the same level of quality as my chemical prints otherwise the clients will moan that they can do as well on their inkjets at home!  

I need an ink/paper combination that does not show metamarism, including with prints which have both B&W and colour elements.

I literally need to be able to leave the paper in the tray, set the 100 A4 sheets to print (don't know how to do that, all I have in a B&W laser printer and have never printed from PS)  and come back the next morning and find them done and ready. I don't want to have to worry about a print cartridge going faint or blocking while the printer continues to print 99 sheets of paper wasting me huge amounts of money. If there is the slightest problem I want the printed to stop and flash me a warning, not carry on or crash my system (can you tell I use windows?   )

Is double sided printing possible on any of these papers that you will suggest to me? That would save me paper..

I don't know what print prices and paper costs are for inkjet, I need to keep the price of printing each A4 sheet, including cleaning the heads the ink and the paper, etc, to under or equivelent to 50p per page. Any more than that and I can send it to the lab for the same price. I know most of you are in the US but would you know if this was possible/probable?

I was looking at the Epson R800 which was well priced but I know nothing else.

I would appreciate all your advice based on my very specific needs.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 12:06:01 PM by pom » Logged

Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2006, 11:42:36 AM »
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Couple of other questions, is it advised to spray inkjet prints to protect them and does this affect the longevity of the prints? What would you suggest as a workflow getting from taking the printer out of the box to achieving photo quality reliable prints? Am I likely to be beating my head against the wall from fustration as it takes me days (and money) to get it right?
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alfin
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2006, 01:33:24 PM »
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Good luck Ben, but I donít think there is an inkjet printer available today that will fulfill all your demands. The R800 is OK for glossy papers if you manage to get a good profile, but matte papers are not so good and the only thing I seem to do is changing ink cartridges that soon cost more than the printer.

BR/Lars
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Lars Mollerstrom
Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2006, 02:01:58 PM »
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Is it that bad?

To summarise, I need:

1)Edge to Edge A4,
2)Photo quality (looking similar to chemical prints) matte paper,
3)No metemarism,
4)Good-ish B&W's on an RGB image (I'm used to the horribly green B&W's from a frontier so doesn't have to be as good as a real silver print!)
5)Doesn't continue printing if there is a problem or ink runs out,
6)Doesn't cost over ~50p an A4 print,
7)Ink/paper combo HAS to be archival (50 years+),

To be honest I'll be printing two 7X5" prints plus shadow on a white background if that will help for the costing, I had intended to use a cream background but it is far from being crucial. Basically what are the print costs on this printer for a 7X5" in ink, I can work it out from there!
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aussiephil
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 06:13:04 AM »
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Quote
Is it that bad?

To summarise, I need:

1)Edge to Edge A4,
2)Photo quality (looking similar to chemical prints) matte paper,
3)No metemarism,
4)Good-ish B&W's on an RGB image (I'm used to the horribly green B&W's from a frontier so doesn't have to be as good as a real silver print!)
5)Doesn't continue printing if there is a problem or ink runs out,
6)Doesn't cost over ~50p an A4 print,
7)Ink/paper combo HAS to be archival (50 years+),

To be honest I'll be printing two 7X5" prints plus shadow on a white background if that will help for the costing, I had intended to use a cream background but it is far from being crucial. Basically what are the print costs on this printer for a 7X5" in ink, I can work it out from there!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll have a go at this

1)Edge to Edge A4,
Most standard A4 capable small inkjets will print borderless A4, oops there goes the ability to load 100 sheets and walk away, either the input tray will be to small or the ink will run out!

2)Photo quality (looking similar to chemical prints) matte paper,
Most would agree that the current crop of photo inkjets, colour profiled and with the right paper will deliver this.

3)No metemarism,
Personal decision to be made by looking at examples printed on the printer of choice, paper of choice.

4)Good-ish B&W's on an RGB image (I'm used to the horribly green B&W's from a frontier so doesn't have to be as good as a real silver print!)
Any properly profiled inkjet will turn out "good-ish" BW.

5)Doesn't continue printing if there is a problem or ink runs out,
OEM carts without autochip resetting should stop, any other problem will stop the print run as well.

6)Doesn't cost over ~50p an A4 print,
Now we get to the centre of the problem.
small form inkjet
Cheap prints = Dye and maybe 3rd party inks with cheap paper. Oops no archival properties.
Archival = good pigment inks on good paper, Oops not cheap per print.

7)Ink/paper combo HAS to be archival (50 years+),
See answer to point 6

the upshot of all this is for A4 inkjet printers the trade-off becomes price vs archival.
The new yet to arrive HP9180 may break this cycle.

One questions the archival requirement for a proofing book. Dye ink prints bound into a book are unlikely to suffer from fade anyway.

Now it may make sense to buy a wide format and use a roll feed and roll paper, the only issue is you lose the ability to make double sided without some pain and obviously special papers.
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dmcginlay
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 06:37:18 AM »
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I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Check out the review of the HP8750 on www.photo-i.co.uk; and

2) Check out the printer stream on DPReview and search for the HP designjet messages - the HP designjet 90r may be a good choice, but check out the 130 (24" capability - overkill for your use, but maybe the right duty cycle and frugal on inks!).

Take care,

Don
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r42ogn
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 07:02:10 AM »
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Just a thought, for a different possible solution have a look at the Kodak Professional range, some of them seem to have the capacity you're looking for (350+ 7x5 prints without intervention is one of their claims).  I haven't used any of them but Kodak Professional are pushing the 68XX range hard for event work and the like.




Quote
I'm on the point of switching to printed A4 sheets of photographic paper for use as proofing sheets which will be then bound into a nice hardback book (actually very cheap at your local universities thesis binding service) and presented to my wedding clients as their proofing book.

I've tried offset services such as Illuma Memory books but the paper, the printing quality and the colour have been found wanting by my clients and pushing a service that the client doesn't like is the business equivelent of comitting suicide! I have until now been giving chemical prints in a slip in album but all too often I never hear from the couple again as they are divided up among the family or having real and loose photographic prints does not inspire thinking of future orders.

I thought of having the pages printed at my local lab but I have a price requirement which they are having trouble matching plus the size, 12X8" is not standard for the bookbinders and hence there is an extra charge.

I'll tell you what I'm looking for and you tell me if you can help me at all.

I need an A4 printer, not bigger, I don't have the space or need for any larger sizes, it is only with bulk printing (I will be printing a minimum of 100 sheets at a time) that it could be considered economical.

I need colour printing on ARCHIVAL matte paper that is as vibrant, colour true (I am familiar with calibration) preferably with the original printer software and not an expensive RIP) as the Fuji Crystal Archive or Kodak Endura Matte papers that I'm used to. I realise that inkjet isn't going to look like chemical prints but the prints/paper must look photographic and not 'consumer inkjet', I need something which is on the same level of quality as my chemical prints otherwise the clients will moan that they can do as well on their inkjets at home!   

I need an ink/paper combination that does not show metamarism, including with prints which have both B&W and colour elements.

I literally need to be able to leave the paper in the tray, set the 100 A4 sheets to print (don't know how to do that, all I have in a B&W laser printer and have never printed from PS)  and come back the next morning and find them done and ready. I don't want to have to worry about a print cartridge going faint or blocking while the printer continues to print 99 sheets of paper wasting me huge amounts of money. If there is the slightest problem I want the printed to stop and flash me a warning, not carry on or crash my system (can you tell I use windows?   )

Is double sided printing possible on any of these papers that you will suggest to me? That would save me paper..

I don't know what print prices and paper costs are for inkjet, I need to keep the price of printing each A4 sheet, including cleaning the heads the ink and the paper, etc, to under or equivelent to 50p per page. Any more than that and I can send it to the lab for the same price. I know most of you are in the US but would you know if this was possible/probable?

I was looking at the Epson R800 which was well priced but I know nothing else.

I would appreciate all your advice based on my very specific needs.

Thanks.
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