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Author Topic: who uses ImagePrint?  (Read 4824 times)
Gregory
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« on: July 12, 2006, 11:01:05 PM »
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I'm wondering... who's using ImagePrint to print their photos?

as I mentioned in another thread, I'm considering (hoping to) print, frame and sell some of my photos locally here in Hong Kong, and I want the best output possible. at the moment, that would appear to be using a Canon ipf5000 printer with the Innova F-Type paper. the next question to ask is will using a dedicated rip like ImagePrint make a significant difference to the printed results.

Michael mentioned ImagePrint in his review of the ipf5000 so I'm guessing that he's impressed with ImagePrint. I'd like to hear more from everyone using ImagePrint.

one question. ColorByte's web page states that they create professional profiles for use with ImagePrint and different printers/media. aren't all printers slightly different in their treatment of colour?

(I hope ColorByte prices the ipf5000 ImagePrint product at the same price as the Epson 4800; ie, US$895. the next price point is US$1495. that's a lot of money!)


one important note. I don't use Photoshop; never have been able to justify the huge cost for an application where I would use less than 2.5% of its functions. currently, my only photo app is Aperture. my only concern with using Aperture at this point in time is perhaps sub-optimal sharpness. comments from the professionals on this forum would be welcome.


sincerely,
Gregory
« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 11:03:24 PM by Gregory » Logged

Gregory's Blog: An Aussie in HK
Equipment: Canon EOS 1D Mark III, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-300 DO
RicAgu
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 01:02:06 AM »
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Don't waste your money!  You would do better taking your money blending it with some fluids and injecting it into the green tank of the Canon 5000.  The product is decent but the customer service SUCKS!  If you are in China forget about it.  Any hurdle you hit with Asia time to Tampa Florida good luck getting them on the phone.  You will spent hours in these forums and wasting ink and paper.  I think it is about time you bought CS2 and I think you will love it!  Aperture cannot hold a candle even near it.  CS2 is the Sun to Apertures dwindling match.

You may want to pick up the student version of straight Photoshop CS2 and not the entire CS package.  You can have it for $300 odd dollars.  Then play with it first and the drivers for the Canon.  I think you will be impressed with that.  I don't think MR used IP with the Canon as it is not available.  If you will only be using one kind of paper or two you can get custom profiles made.  if not I think the drivers with PS will be fine.  You may also want to look at Colorburst.  I put a link below and they are really nice.  I am not sure how their support would be in Asia, but in the states it is flawless.  But from what MR was saying about his 5000 with Canon drivers and photoshop I think you will be more than OK.

http://www.colorburstrip.com/

Best of Luck


Quote
I'm wondering... who's using ImagePrint to print their photos?

as I mentioned in another thread, I'm considering (hoping to) print, frame and sell some of my photos locally here in Hong Kong, and I want the best output possible. at the moment, that would appear to be using a Canon ipf5000 printer with the Innova F-Type paper. the next question to ask is will using a dedicated rip like ImagePrint make a significant difference to the printed results.

Michael mentioned ImagePrint in his review of the ipf5000 so I'm guessing that he's impressed with ImagePrint. I'd like to hear more from everyone using ImagePrint.

one question. ColorByte's web page states that they create professional profiles for use with ImagePrint and different printers/media. aren't all printers slightly different in their treatment of colour?

(I hope ColorByte prices the ipf5000 ImagePrint product at the same price as the Epson 4800; ie, US$895. the next price point is US$1495. that's a lot of money!)
one important note. I don't use Photoshop; never have been able to justify the huge cost for an application where I would use less than 2.5% of its functions. currently, my only photo app is Aperture. my only concern with using Aperture at this point in time is perhaps sub-optimal sharpness. comments from the professionals on this forum would be welcome.
sincerely,
Gregory
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digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 07:59:50 AM »
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I use it to drive my 2200 and 2400 and find noticeable quality improvements over the Epson driver. For B&W it's really great although the 2400 isn't bad out of the box. There are a number of workflow and productivity benefits of using a RIP like this and the image quality is a plus too. If Epson would just fix their driver, there would be less reasons to drop the bucks on a substitute driver.
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Andrew Rodney
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bjanes
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 12:20:25 PM »
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I use it to drive my 2200 and 2400 and find noticeable quality improvements over the Epson driver. For B&W it's really great although the 2400 isn't bad out of the box. There are a number of workflow and productivity benefits of using a RIP like this and the image quality is a plus too. If Epson would just fix their driver, there would be less reasons to drop the bucks on a substitute driver.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70564\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ImagePrint for the Epson 2200 is $995 for the full version and $495 for the light verson. That's more than most of us amateurs are willing to pay and more than the printer is worth. Is it the Epson driver that is inferior or merely the canned profiles that lead to inferior results?

Bill
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 12:26:14 PM »
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ImagePrint for the Epson 2200 is $995 for the full version and $495 for the light verson. That's more than most of us amateurs are willing to pay and more than the printer is worth. Is it the Epson driver that is inferior or merely the canned profiles that lead to inferior results?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Here's the "problem", the Epson is too cheap <g>. Really, we're used to seeing the printer at what, $700 so the idea of spending almost that much for a driver rubs the wrong way. The weak link for Epson is the software. It doesn't suck too bad and yes, you can make nice prints off it. If we had a time machine and Epson first bundled the printer and this software and priced it at $1200, we'd all be OK with that. The toothpaste is out of the tube. Plus Epson doesn't make very much money on the hardware (the old razor blade theory).

The software does make a visible quality difference in my opinion. But everyone needs to judge that for themselves. The dither is superior and the output is FAR more linear. A major complaint is how bad the Epson lays down ink (too much). You also get some pretty good canned profiles to a zillion papers (not something you get from Epson) although I still roll my own. But there's also the issue of productivity. This is really useful for larger format printers. Imagine making a 44" canvas in Photoshop to gang up a bunch of images. Or not having auto templates to drag and drop one image into and having to do this manually in Photoshop. Lots of work. Or having a queue where you can click on button and reprint anything you previously printed from the queue. So is it worth the price? That's something each user has to decide.
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Andrew Rodney
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alainbriot
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 03:23:10 PM »
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With the 4800/7800/9800, especially if you use both glossy & matte papers, it's a no brainer.  With the 2400 it is more of a stretch cost-wise, but if you want the finest printing quality, then you owe it to yourself to go for it.
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Alain Briot
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 03:44:50 PM »
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The software does make a visible quality difference in my opinion. But everyone needs to judge that for themselves. The dither is superior and the output is FAR more linear. A major complaint is how bad the Epson lays down ink (too much).You also get some pretty good canned profiles to a zillion papers (not something you get from Epson) although I still roll my own.
Am I correct that

a) You need the full version if you want to create your own profiles
b) Even then you can't create your own b/w profiles

It's just a shame we should have to pay $1000 for a more linear driver to use as a starting point for profiling. Epson should give us better drivers.


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But there's also the issue of productivity. This is really useful for larger format printers. Imagine making a 44" canvas in Photoshop to gang up a bunch of images. Or not having auto templates to drag and drop one image into and having to do this manually in Photoshop. Lots of work. Or having a queue where you can click on button and reprint anything you previously printed from the queue. So is it worth the price? That's something each user has to decide.
QImage does all that  for $50. I agree that some type of layout capability beyond Photoshop is useful but it sure isn't worth $500.

The problem is that Image Print is priced as a niche product aimed at niche market - professional printers. As an amatuer who cares about quality but doesn't make a living at this stuff, I can't help but look at the price of IP and think it's a complete ripoff compared to some of the other software I've bought and use on a regular basis.

I can't help but think if these RIP and Color Management companies would lower their prices and go after the larger market space they'd actually make more profit. Problem is they're so concerned about protecting the price-point of their "pro" products that what they offer to consumers tends to be crippled or stripped down to the point where it doesn't really appeal to users like me.
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dlashier
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 04:09:58 PM »
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> Am I correct that
> a) You need the full version if you want to create your own profiles

No, works fine with the lite version. Perhaps you're thinking of Colorburst?

fwiw in the first year IP probably saved its cost in not wasted media and ink compared to the *&#^% Epson driver. I hesitated to buy IP but despite mediocre support and lousy upgrade policy, I don't regret the purchase in the least.

- DL
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 04:11:07 PM by dlashier » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2006, 04:56:18 PM »
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You can create your own color profiles but the B&W profiles are proprietary (and there's no reason to need to roll your own, they are excellent). The price difference is primarily for a true Postscript compatible version. Most photographers don't need that.
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Andrew Rodney
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alfin
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 04:53:25 AM »
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I’m trying to figure out whether to invest in the ImagePrint driver for R2400 or not and I have some questions for those of you who have the software. I do not seem to find some of the answers on their website.

From their website the difference in features between the full version and the Lite version is that the Lite version does not include page tiling, package printing, auto print and the color correction tool.

The first three I can understand what they are doing and I can probably live without them, but the color correction tool, is that the same as B/W Dark Room Effects or just something to tweak profile colors? The B/W Dark Room Effects seems to be something one wants to have!

Another question I have is how you do soft-proofing with ImagePrint? I assume the profiles can not be used directly in PS, so you can only have a preview in the separate print driver window, or? If so, how do you do “before-print” corrections?

Since Adobe Lightroom probably will become the application of choice (I cannot try for myself yet, I’m on Windows) my final question is, if you are using ImagePrint as your print driver, will the print module in LR be useless then? I would guess that’s the case.

Thanks for any input you can give to help me in my decision!

BR/Lars
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Lars Mollerstrom
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 07:24:05 AM »
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The color correction tools are totally useless! Old code from their scanner driver. I wish they'd just pull it out. You're missing nothing IMHO.
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Andrew Rodney
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rdonson
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 12:51:28 PM »
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I'm curious to learn how people feel about the annual maintenance fee.  That's not a trivial sum.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 03:58:04 PM »
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I'm curious to learn how people feel about the annual maintenance fee.  That's not a trivial sum.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70701\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm wondering about this as well, since it would seem to be the only way to get program updates. Does this mean if I buy IP 6.1 Light today, and 32 days from now they come out with IP 6.15 to fix some nasty bug that's been discovered, I wouldn't get the update? Or is it just new profiles and major program updates that require the maintenance plan? I could live without new profiles as long as I can create my own...
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bjanes
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2006, 04:43:05 PM »
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I'm wondering about this as well, since it would seem to be the only way to get program updates. Does this mean if I buy IP 6.1 Light today, and 32 days from now they come out with IP 6.15 to fix some nasty bug that's been discovered, I wouldn't get the update? Or is it just new profiles and major program updates that require the maintenance plan? I could live without new profiles as long as I can create my own...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Most of us amateurs do not make their own printer profiles, nor do we wish to buy expensive printing software. From Michael's recent review, it looks like Canon has taken some high ground with their iPF5000, addressing deficiencies in the comparable Epson model. Perhaps it now time for them to address the advanced amateur market.
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mikeseb
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2006, 05:36:01 PM »
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I'm curious to learn how people feel about the annual maintenance fee.  That's not a trivial sum.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70701\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed it is not trivial. When I bought ImagePrint 6.0.x about two years ago for my Epson 4000, the person I spoke with recommended waiting to pay the maintenance/upgrade fee until an upgrade was available, thus starting the clock running at that point. Kinda ironic when the company itself seems to acknowledge that their prices are steep.

Doesn't look like I'm gonna have this worry as long as i stick with my 4000, which my Department of Hobbyist Zeal Control/wife informs me is going to be until it dies, or until it begins to pay for itself in print sales!

That said, I really like ImagePrint, especially for its layout and B&W abilities.
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michael sebastian
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