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Author Topic: LR 1.0  (Read 16627 times)
John Camp
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« on: August 14, 2006, 08:48:23 PM »
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Things are moving more slowly than I expected with Lightroom. Beta 3 expires Jan. 30, so I expect we'll have something before then, but has anybody heard anything (other than Jan. 30) about when we can expect a fully functional, non-expiring commercial version? I'd originally heard this fall, but as I say, progress seems slow...

JC
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 10:29:15 PM »
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Ever heard of NDA's?

Those that know can't say, those that can't don't know...(cause if they DID know, they would be under an NDA).

And don't presume ANYTHING based on the beta expiration...it has nothing to do about anything except for when that beta will expire.
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2006, 09:40:11 AM »
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Slow? Beta 3 was just recently released. Patience Grasshopper...
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jani
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 09:48:51 AM »
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Quote
Ever heard of NDA's?

Those that know can't say, those that can't don't know...(cause if they DID know, they would be under an NDA).
Over-simplification.

People who know have either:

 - signed an NDA
 - been told without signing an NDA (accidents happen!)
 - been told by someone who signed an NDA
 - sneaked a peek at information belonging to someone who signed an NDA
 - performed industrial espionage
 - been told by someone who did anything of the above
 - etc., ad nauseam
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Jan
John Camp
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2006, 11:25:18 AM »
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Yeah, I know all that. Everybody knows all that. I AM running out of patience, because I would like a product that is stable, that has a set of rules that go with it, that allows you to move stuff between computers without problems, etc., even if you have to buy multiple copies of the program. And I don't like to have to have photos scattered over three different programs, constantly in a state of transition, because nobody will tell us what's going to happen with Lightroom. If Adobe's got two guys drinking coffee, scratching their asses and writing ten lines of code a day, I'm going over to Aperture, although I like what I've seen about Lightroom better than Aperture. But I'm not going to wait three more years; I've got more than a thousand photos in my Lightroom Beta 3 right now, and I want a permanent solution that I don't have to worry about. All I want from Adobe is what I got from Leica last year with their M8: a target date. What's the big deal? If the target date for a commercial version is Jan. 30, and it gets pushed to Feb. 30, I'm not going to drop out. If the target date is sometime in 2008 if the moon is in Aquarius, I'm going to find something else. This, to repeat myself, is from a guy who likes Lightroom. A lot. But I need a permanent solution.

JC
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 01:21:22 PM »
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Although not set in stone, Adobe has been stating the target date is by the end of 2006.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 02:32:03 PM »
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Instead of complaining, why not feel glad you've been able to try the product at this early stage, for so long, and for free?

John
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Schewe
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2006, 06:15:23 PM »
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Yeah, I know all that. Everybody knows all that. I AM running out of patience, because I would like a product that is stable, that has a set of rules that go with it, that allows you to move stuff between computers without problems, etc., even if you have to buy multiple copies of the program. And I don't like to have to have photos scattered over three different programs, constantly in a state of transition, because nobody will tell us what's going to happen with Lightroom. If Adobe's got two guys drinking coffee, scratching their asses and writing ten lines of code a day, I'm going over to Aperture, although I like what I've seen about Lightroom better than Aperture.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, there is considerably more than two engineers scratching their asses doode, look at the Beta 3 credits screen...

Also, don't know what part of "due to ship end of 2006" you don't understand? But the end of 2006 has been the target date since Lightroom was announced in Jan.

As far as "progress", you fully understand that bringing the Windows version up to speed with the Mac was a major effort? And now that that's done, they (more then two guys drinking coffee) are working full steam to add new features?

Seems you got a feather up your butt for nothing doode...chill out. And again (even if you SAY you know it) those that know can't say, so asking is pretty much a moot point.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 06:16:15 PM by Schewe » Logged
Tim Gray
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 06:32:55 PM »
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Also I'd rather wait a bit and get some RSE in the mix...
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John Camp
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 06:39:59 PM »
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All right, I was a liittle intemperate. But part of that is because a few members of this forum seem to think that Lightroom is a gift from the gods, when, in fact, it's a blinkin' product. I like it -- so far -- except that it hangs up occasionally and is a bit slow, which I believe will get fixed; but there are other products out there, perhaps not as good as Lightroom will be someday, but pretty good. Usable. Right now. As for what part of "due to ship end of 2006" I don't understand, THAT was what I didn't understand; all I had was a rumor that said this fall. If somebody had politely answered my original question by saying, "Adobe says it's due to ship by the end of 2006," I would have said, "Thanks. I'll be looking forward to it."

JC
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 06:52:44 PM »
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Well, there is considerably more than two engineers scratching their asses doode, look at the Beta 3 credits screen...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's right. In software development, ass-scratching is a team effort. Otherwise its just called open-source. *ahem*

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Also I'd rather wait a bit and get some RSE in the mix...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73462\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Heck yes. The sharpening tools currently there are quite lame...

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All right, I was a liittle intemperate. But part of that is because a few members of this forum seem to think that Lightroom is a gift from the gods, when, in fact, it's a blinkin' product.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73465\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
While certainly not from the gods (whomever they may be) I think much of the excitement over LR is not just over the product itself. I think most of it comes from the long overdue shift in the direction software will be taking as a result of LR (and Aperture). The future looks good.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 06:53:58 PM by 61Dynamic » Logged
James DeMoss
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 07:26:56 PM »
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I for one think Adobe has it right for not releasing LR too quick. I have beta tested for years and software that is released before it's ready will punish you over and over. Imagine using any software for a mission critical and loosing your work. Even when LR goes public I could not count on it for my projects right away. Use whats been available and watch LR mature into THE raw imaging program we all have wanted. Adobe is trying very hard to get this one right.

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James
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2006, 11:00:30 AM »
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For what it's worth, the publication date for the hardcopy version Martin Evening's book on Lightroom (Adobe Press) is 29th December.  I assume the product is currently scheduled to ship before then.


<flamebait>I find it a little ironic that "NDA" starts getting bandied around when up until now we've been deluged with more information than we can cope with.  Still, NDAs are great ego boosters.</flamebait>
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2006, 11:58:31 AM »
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<flamebait>I find it a little ironic that "NDA" starts getting bandied around when up until now we've been deluged with more information than we can cope with.  Still, NDAs are great ego boosters.</flamebait>
Who mentioned NDAs? Apart from the one poster here who we'd all expect to be under one?

John
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Josh-H
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2006, 09:31:47 PM »
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Still, NDAs are great ego boosters

LOL - not to mention a convenient way of not answering a question.    *mischievous chuckle*

I find it unlikely that Adobe throw LR out to the world for Beta but hide a final release date under an NDA. Makes little sense to me. *shrug - but then what do I know!*

Personally, I think Ppl who are heavily involved with adobe and under supposed NDA's shouldnt be posting on the product full stop IMO - either they post to boost their ego [thats cool - we all need an ego boost every now and again] or they enjoy hinting at things they arent supposed to be discussing. Really who cares why though!  

 I dont really care either way - I love LR's workflow so I will buy it when it comes out. If it comes out in December or January - who cares? As long as it comes out eventually! All good things come to those who wait  

Personally, I would rather wait a bit longer and get it fully featured and bug free that be handed a product that is incomplete or problematic.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 10:16:35 PM by JHolko » Logged

opgr
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2006, 05:05:31 AM »
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Well, there is considerably more than two engineers scratching their asses doode, look at the Beta 3 credits screen...

Also, don't know what part of "due to ship end of 2006" you don't understand? But the end of 2006 has been the target date since Lightroom was announced in Jan.

As far as "progress", you fully understand that bringing the Windows version up to speed with the Mac was a major effort? And now that that's done, they (more then two guys drinking coffee) are working full steam to add new features?

Seems you got a feather up your butt for nothing doode...chill out. And again (even if you SAY you know it) those that know can't say, so asking is pretty much a moot point.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Interesting response. I thought the entire point of the beta process and this forum was to gather critique and feedback. Here is some critique, not even unsubstantiated I might add, and see what that amounts to. I also think it is an excellent question. First the product is a RAW processor, then it is a DAM, then a RAW processor again, oh no, maybe not, maybe something in between. Oh boy, just three more months to release (which I hope includes a manual with a "set of rules that go with it" and that, I believe, brilliantly summarizes the real issue).

Can you imagine these engineers make decisions about the product the same way they do about having a lunch break somewhere?

And then there is the cardinal rule of information: too much information is no information. What really has been the use and influence of the public beta? is it really the new wave of Adobe? if so, why can't I download the new Photoshop yet? Ever seen the discussions on the LR lab forums? Well, are they really discussions? Or simply single statements? Are engineers actually listening and responding to the issues? Even the normal Adobe forums get more feedback from the guys and galls at the front.

Apple had it right to really listen to and interact with a select set of photographers and then create the product. Going on some marketing trip halfway through the beta process with a bunch of renowned photographers is not exactly going to fundamentally establish the product's constituent is it?

And you know what the best part is? I also am going to purchase Lightroom,  because I like it and I trust Adobe to make it the best product ever. And I am also willing to upgrade for RSE integration. Just skip the idea of public beta and mystifying podcasts next time.
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Oscar Rysdyk
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2006, 06:20:21 AM »
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Yes, the podcasts are a bit mystifing on theface of it...especially the last 4 or 5.  They are extremely enjoyable, and actually could compete quite happily with the LL Video Journal. They give interesting insights into the photographers, but surprisingly little into Lightroom or into the photographer's impressions of Lightroom, which I assumed was the main point. Admittedly, Richard Morgenstein, for one, talks up the B&W conversion tools with great enthusiasm, but for example I'd be more interested in hearing at least some of Peter Krogh's views on Lightroom as a DAM tool. He is the de facto chief guru in this area, after all...  It is a delicate issue, but sooner or later the question of comparison is going to have to addressed - basically, do all these people really find that Lightroom is a killer application, or is it simply an interesting alternative to the tools they're already using in production ? The impression that Richard Morgenstein gives is that there are interpretations of his photos that simply would not have occured to him outside of Lightroom - that is a pretty powerful message.

I have an impression (an impression - not an opinion, however misinformed) that the technical resources on Lightroom are quite limited, although maybe they're ramping up now. I think it was a clever move to do this Iceland thing - it appears expensive, but in terms of marketing budgets and bang for buck, I reckon it is a bargain. The public beta could be considered as an alternative to expensive market research, although it is very much a double edged sword - and the Adobe forums are so slow and unusable I think they probably filter out a lot of participation.

I would expect a shipping date to be announced at Photokina - that leaves a 3 month window of opportunity to meet the 2006 intention, and it seems like the right place to do it.
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2006, 10:16:13 AM »
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And you know what the best part is? I also am going to purchase Lightroom,  because I like it and I trust Adobe to make it the best product ever. And I am also willing to upgrade for RSE integration. Just skip the idea of public beta and mystifying podcasts next time.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But, Opgr, my big question is, are you getting the API to make an alternative plug in? I simply cannot be left without your Convert-to-BW-Pro. The Lightroom alternative does not excite me. I want your plug-in in Lightroom.
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2006, 12:21:54 PM »
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...do all these people really find that Lightroom is a killer application, or is it simply an interesting alternative to the tools they're already using...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, as a user of Peter Krogh's DAM workflow, I would also like to know his reactions and suggestions.  And the same for the special interests of many of the other participants.  Boku's question to Opgr about whether plugin developers are getting the API to make alternative plugins is also interesting and unanswered.

What we see on the videos is very effective marketing and one-ups-manship on the part of Adobe.  My guess is that if we learned what the engineers have learned from the Iceland shoot, we would be applauding the effort.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2006, 12:32:08 PM »
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Fred

Have you seen this article or these discussions?

John
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