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Author Topic: Help! Decent raw converter for Canon Powershot s70  (Read 13385 times)
Goldilocks
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« on: August 15, 2006, 06:36:28 PM »
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 Please bear this lengthy post. I need advice. I thank this website and everyone that has added their input to getting me up to par on photography, after a serious injury in 1998. Through the help of this website, I purchased a Canon Powershot s70, Low weight camera (less than 12 ounces), 28 mm equivalent lens with optical zoom, and the ability to capture as much detail in the highlights, midtones and shadows - so the picture looks the way I saw it. (I use to paint plain air landscapes, hiking with 50 lbs of gear and now I'm lucky to be able to walk in the park - I'm still disabled).
I had downloaded Rawshooter essentials and the trial version of Rawshooter Premium. I loved it. But, my slow old Dell pentium II at 700 Mhz and 256 ram took forever to do anything. Plus walking up the stairs to get to the desktop was painful and many days impossible. Finally this August, I got an HP pavillion laptop, has Windows XP media edition, dual core, 2 GB ram, figuring that even if I couldn't get to my desktop, someone could bring the computer to me.
A friend took me to the country this past week, I went to download and purchase RawShooter Premium on my new laptop and couldn't. Darn Adobe!
If anyone knows of a way that I can buy a copy of RawShooter Premium, I'd love to hear from you. Adobe's (or Pixmantec) public relations on the internet claims that RawShootert Essentials is still available for free, but I don't know how to get it. (I searched their website and couldn't find a download). If you can help me download or get the supposedly still free and available RawShooter Essentials. I'd appreciate that.
Since most raw format softwares are made for DSLR's, I'm having trouble finding one for the Canon Powershot s70. Even Canon's Raw Task is very lacking, no highlight and shadow settings, limited curves, no levels, no clipping information, not even an eyedropper tool to see the RGB values. And Canon's Digital Professional software does not support the Powershot cameras.
I'm not sure what Breeze Browser does or if YarcPlus is still available. Any suggestions for working with raw on the Canon Powershot s70 so that I can finally use what I purchased recently will be very appreciated.
Hoping to hear alot of good suggestions.
Thanks,
Linda
(Goldilocks)
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2006, 07:04:03 PM »
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Linda,

You can still download RSE from Pixmantec (I just did it). Go to http://www.pixmantec.com and move your mouse over "products" (the home page makes no mention of Essentials.) A drop down menu appears; click on "essentials 2006".
(Actually, you can get there directly by going to http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials.asp which is the RSE page.) Then click on "download" and it should come right away.

Breeze Browser also does Canon point-and-shoots, and I use it for my S60.

I hope this works for you. Good luck.

Eric
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Goldilocks
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2006, 10:10:47 PM »
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Linda,

You can still download RSE from Pixmantec (I just did it). Go to http://www.pixmantec.com and move your mouse over "products" (the home page makes no mention of Essentials.) A drop down menu appears; click on "essentials 2006".
(Actually, you can get there directly by going to http://www.pixmantec.com/products/rawshooter_essentials.asp which is the RSE page.) Then click on "download" and it should come right away.

Breeze Browser also does Canon point-and-shoots, and I use it for my S60.

I hope this works for you. Good luck.

Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73470\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Goldilocks
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 10:17:21 PM »
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Thanks Eric. Last Wednesday there was no Pixmantec site. What is your opinion of Breeze Browser as compared to Raw Shooter Essentials? The pros and cons of each?
Linda (Goldilocks)
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 12:26:01 PM »
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Thanks Eric. Last Wednesday there was no Pixmantec site. What is your opinion of Breeze Browser as compared to Raw Shooter Essentials? The pros and cons of each?
Linda (Goldilocks)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just processed a New York street scene from my S60 in Breeze Browser Pro and with Raw Shooter Essentials (the 2005 version, which I already have installed), as well as Raw Shooter Premium (2006), which I have been using quite a bit. My impressions are just that: impressions rather than an exhaustive review.

First, as raw converters, RSE and RSP are almost indistinguishable from each other (RSP has lots of other bells and whistles, but since it is no longer available, I'll ignore it from here on.)

Also, I expect that Breeze Browser (standard) is pretty much the same as Breeze Browser Pro as far as raw conversion goes (Pro has more bells and whistles, including things like web-site generation). I have BB Pro, so that is the one I'll compare with RSE.

Main differences as I see them between RSE and BB Pro are cost, user interface, and flexibility.

RSE is free, while BB regular is $49.95 and BB Pro is $69.95 ($35 to upgrade from regular to Pro.)

The user interfaces are quite different, but with a bit of exploration of the help/manual, each is pretty easy to deal with. BB seems a little simpler to do a straightforward conversion, but RSE has more refinements available (more sliders, which are infinitely adjustable, whereas BB has discrete increments on most sliders and settings.) For example, BB's "exposure compensation" lets you shift the entire histogram left or right, but only by discrete chunks; all other converters I'm aware of allow you to set the slider enywhere.

To me, the BB interface is simpler and more intuitive; but RSE gives you more control over the results, while the interface is a bit more confusing (you need to read the manual well, or spend time exploring the mysterious ikons at the top and bottom of the screen to find out what they do; and some sliders are greyed out unless you have zoomed to 100% or higher.)

Both of these will convert S60 and S70 raw files (which my expensive Capture One LE won't -- that was my main converter for my 10D, which has now been replaced by a 5D, which Capture One LE won't handle either.)

My suggestion would be to try the free download of Raw Shooter Essentials first and see how that works for you.

If you want, I can email you a couple of S60 samples I just converted with RSE and BBPro. I could also send you the free RSE installer if you can't get it from their website.

I hope this helps. Good luck with the S70. I continue to be impressed with what I can get from my lowly S60, but I do need to use some noise reduction on most images (I use Noise Ninja for that).

-Eric
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 12:42:21 PM »
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If you use Photoshop another way of removing colour noise is via Adobe Camera Raw when you open the image into photoshop - details tab. It's very good.
Though if you have non-raw images this is is a handy method too.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...-gremlins.shtml

I just wish the S80 had RAW as my S60 is falling apart. It's hit concrete a few times too many.
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2006, 07:04:36 PM »
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I went to download and purchase RawShooter Premium on my new laptop and couldn't. Darn Adobe![a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So...you feel screwed by Adobe because they bought a company-pixmantic-and end of lifed RSP...even though RSE -IS- still available for free? So, you CAN still get a TOTALLY FREE raw converter, but you can't get what you now want to buy.

Big 'ol bad Adobe huh? Continuing to give away a free product. Why, sombody otta SUE THEM...

Anybody else think this is just a weebit over the top? Course, not everybody will actually come to read the post, but you still left that "screwed by Adobe" line hanging in the air...

Darn Adobe...indeed.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2006, 08:30:17 PM »
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So...you feel screwed by Adobe because they bought a company-pixmantic-and end of lifed RSP...even though RSE -IS- still available for free? So, you CAN still get a TOTALLY FREE raw converter, but you can't get what you now want to buy.

Big 'ol bad Adobe huh? Continuing to give away a free product. Why, sombody otta SUE THEM...

Anybody else think this is just a weebit over the top? Course, not everybody will actually come to read the post, but you still left that "screwed by Adobe" line hanging in the air...

Darn Adobe...indeed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff,

I hate to criticize a top pro like you, for whom I have the greatest respect and gratitude for all thet you have given the photographic world, but...

"Anybody else think this (your response to Goldilocks -- my insertion here) is just a weebit over the top?" I found her comment about Adobe to be a very minor part of her post, which was a request for help. I tried to offer some help. In fact, when I went to the Pixmantec website to look for RSE, it was pretty difficult to find any information about plain old RSE or how to download it.

I don't think it is helpful or reasonable to flame everybody who has experienced some frustration as a result of the Adobe acquisition of Pixmantec, nor do I think you gave an honest reading of what Goldilocks was saying.

If you apologize to her for overreacting, I'll be happy to apologize to you for overreacting.

-Eric

(Happy RSP user who looks forward to an RSP-enhanced Lightroom at some future date.)
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2006, 08:31:54 PM »
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If Microsoft bought Adobe and took PS off the market while they "integrated" it into their flagship whatever I'd probably want to vent a bit.

Having said that I applaud Adobe in their offering to give existing RSP owners a copy of v1.0 Lightroom for free.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2006, 08:40:51 PM »
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If Microsoft bought Adobe and took PS off the market while they "integrated" it into their flagship whatever I'd probably want to vent a bit.

Having said that I applaud Adobe in their offering to give existing RSP owners a copy of v1.0 Lightroom for free.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73587\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree completely, Tim. But I still think Schewe's comment was seriously OT as a response to the original post.

-Eric
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Schewe
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2006, 11:13:27 PM »
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If you apologize to her for overreacting, I'll be happy to apologize to you for overreacting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73585\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No apologies required from you bud, but I won't be offering any either. For a woman to come into a public forum and say she fees "screwed by Adobe", well, let's just say I find that in incredible poor taste and offensive. She was told where to go to get the free RSE...fine, that part of her post was addressed... But that "screwed by Adobe" still sits there in the desciption to her post headline.

She could have come into the forums to simply ask where to get RSE....but no, she has t put  a pretty nasty spin to her post, one that I find offensive. Sorry, can't let that pass...
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 10:47:11 AM »
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RSE is no substitute for RSP.

I feel screwed by Adobe.  I feel more screwed by Pixmantec.  I like the EOLing RSP with nothing there to replace it.  That's special.   At least RSP supports my current camera.

One camera update and I'll be running DPP.  That's no way to live.
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Goldilocks
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 11:26:47 PM »
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RSE is no substitute for RSP.

I feel screwed by Adobe.  I feel more screwed by Pixmantec.  I like the EOLing RSP with nothing there to replace it.  That's special.   At least RSP supports my current camera.

One camera update and I'll be running DPP.  That's no way to live.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73638\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Eric. You understood my need for help and the fact that the photographic industry isn't catering to disabled creative people. A painter's eye is different than a photographers eye, but with RSP, I felt I was getting pretty good results. My timing of purchasing a better computer (in order to use RSP and another graphic program while batch processing and/or printing and/or editing in a different grapic program) was just a month to 2 months off.
 Yes,  I would be happy to see the differences in your shots processed by Breeze Browser vs Raw Shooter Essentials. In particular, I'm looking for a high dynamic range in outdoor shots with details in the highlights and details in the shade. And to be able to curve and level it so that it apears the way I saw it, unless their is another method that I'm not aware of.
I thank everyone at this site, for I am learning alot despite my 8 year inability to sit by a computer and function due to my pain. Although I'm looking for a raw converter,  I guess I'm  really looking for a good raw editor that will handle the Canon s70.  From my internet searches, I've only seen converters with minor editors, hence yes, I feel screwed by Adobe/Pixmantec discontinuing Raw Shooter Premium. And when I went to the Pixmantec site, the days before I went to the country, THERE WAS NO SITE, hence my fustration after analyzing what to purchase and after making some major investments.
Hence, just because I feel screwed doesn't mean that the companies screwed the entire world. I knew when I purchased the s70 that I was a dying breed in the market place, but it fit my physical and creative needs, once i saw how it worked with RSE and especially RSP. I guess you can say Canon is no better, because their software for the s70 raw files is a joke and they are the ones that created the camera.
So rather than everyone ranting and venting about my "I feel screwed" comment, I am open for suggestions to help me with my problem. I got your attention. Now, please answer the questions to help me solve my problem to the best of you ability. I have only one long distance friend that is into photography as a minor hobby, and he just uses jpegs.
I really depend on this site, and my intentions are to learn so that someday I can offer good advice to others. My intentions are not to offend. Some of my past posted topics never recieved a response, so I knew I had to catch peoples attenton, since most photographers that are willing to spend the time editing their photos are using higher end cameras.
Sincerely,
Linda (Goldilocks)
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2006, 09:27:12 AM »
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I'm a photographer who loves Photoshop.  But it's taken me years to learn to use it.  

I appreciate what Adobe is doing with LR to simplify my workflow...and I'm hoping, without sacrificing quality.

To quickly make the improvements, they needed to acquire Pixmatic.

Thank you Adobe.
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Schewe
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2006, 04:54:29 PM »
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I really depend on this site, and my intentions are to learn so that someday I can offer good advice to others. My intentions are not to offend. Some of my past posted topics never recieved a response, so I knew I had to catch peoples attenton...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73818\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Therein lies the problem I had with your first post...using inflammatory language in an attempt to get attention. I had a problem with that.

You can still download and use RSE...you might be able to buy somebody else's RSP license or you can look at Photoshop Elements (comes with Camera Raw) or go searching for some of the other 3rd party raw processing apps-there are a lot of them.

But if you need help, you might need to get better asking for it-coming into the forums screaming "I feel screwed" is not optimal...IMHO
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2006, 09:50:39 PM »
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So...you feel screwed by Adobe because they bought a company-pixmantic-and end of lifed RSP...even though RSE -IS- still available for free? So, you CAN still get a TOTALLY FREE raw converter, but you can't get what you now want to buy.

Big 'ol bad Adobe huh? Continuing to give away a free product. Why, sombody otta SUE THEM...

Anybody else think this is just a weebit over the top? Course, not everybody will actually come to read the post, but you still left that "screwed by Adobe" line hanging in the air...

Darn Adobe...indeed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

The wording of Linda was probably not the best, but it is a fact that many people just don't find the purchase of Pixmantec by Adobe to be a move that brings value to them.

I personnally feel that the world of digital photography is now a few steps back compared to where it was before this purchase. Little additional value, but one less alternative.

I am a licenced RSP user, but will probably not request my "free" copy of Lightroom from Adobe based on the information that is available today.

Why I am saying no additional value? As i said before, why on earth would I want to lock my images in a DAM that only provides one RAW converter??? The bottom line being that Lightroom isn't usable as a DAM, it therefore only becomes just a RAW converter... but Adobe was already providing ACR... this is where I don't see the value.

One thing is clear though, Pixmantec - a high profile competitor of Adobe that has been providing value to us through innovation - is gone.

Adobe has been prolonging the existence of the free RSE. Should we stand up and applaude? Pixmantec had made a strong public commitment that RSE would stay free, did Adobe really have any choice?

Cheers,
Bernard
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Schewe
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2006, 12:45:35 PM »
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One thing is clear though, Pixmantec - a high profile competitor of Adobe that has been providing value to us through innovation - is gone.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73896\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's one way of looking at it, another way is that now, the best of pixmantec, Michael Jonsson is now working on Camera Raw/Lightroom and will have far more resources and a bigger reach than he ever could with a tiny startup co like pixmantec.

I don't know the exact reasons why Michael left Phase One to start pixmantec, but I would guess he wasn't happy with the direction of the company. So, one would think he wouldn't go to Adobe if he didn't think there was a chance that he could contribute and improve on what Adobe has already done-that and the chance to work with Thomas Knoll and the engineering talent at Adobe was prolly attractive.

Adobe didn't buy pixmantec to get ride of a competitor, Adobe bought it to get Michael and the stuff he's written and can write...
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Herb
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2006, 03:14:22 PM »
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... one would think he wouldn't go to Adobe if he didn't think there was a chance that he could contribute and improve on what Adobe has already done-that and the chance to work with Thomas Knoll and the engineering talent at Adobe was prolly attractive.

one might. Others would think he wouldn't go to Adobe if he didn't think there was a chance that he could improve his bank balance.

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Adobe didn't buy pixmantec to get ride of a competitor, Adobe bought it to get Michael and the stuff he's written and can write...

Right. Interesting. As an alternative, Michael's algorithms could have been licensed, of course. Lucky break that the buyout option kills a raw competitor AND the danger of a Photoshop killer in the future.

Still, good that the official editor of Photoshop News comes here to defend Adobe, notwithstanding his sensitivity to inflammatory posts from disabled ladies.

FWIW; I also feel screwed by Adobe and Pixmantec. I expected no more from Adobe. I did hope for better from Pixmantec. IMHO. YMMV.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2006, 06:30:40 PM »
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That's one way of looking at it, another way is that now, the best of pixmantec, Michael Jonsson is now working on Camera Raw/Lightroom and will have far more resources and a bigger reach than he ever could with a tiny startup co like pixmantec.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have a lot of respect for the work done by Adobe on many fronts, but Pixmantec did IMHO manage to better ACR in very little time at just about every level (workflow, conversion quality, interface,...). Who is going to learn from who?

I work for a large software company myself, and we all know that the overhead of having to develop within a large structure and a complex code is very high. The main value is in being able to use an existing infrastructure and indeed to tap into a pool of competences, but it seems that Pixmantec had already developped a very efficient infra layer for RSP.

For me, Michael will mostly experience the downsides of being in a large team without getting much actual benefits. But that is just my feeling of course.

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Adobe didn't buy pixmantec to get ride of a competitor, Adobe bought it to get Michael and the stuff he's written and can write...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, it may be so, but just looking at facts, the actual motivation doesn't make any difference.

There is no pointing fingers at someone, nobody forced Michael to sell Pixmantec to Adobe, he decided that himself and who am I to blame him. I can think of many perfectly understandanble motives, but the net outcome is a poorer market place.

Cheers,
Bernard
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2006, 10:54:01 PM »
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Still, good that the official editor of Photoshop News comes here to defend Adobe, notwithstanding his sensitivity to inflammatory posts from disabled ladies.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73956\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hum. . .not sure how to respond to that little bit of business...kinda like a reporter asking a husband, "exactly when did you QUIT hitting your wife?".

Ok, you don't like me Herb...I just decided I don't particularly care for you all that much either.

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Lucky break that the buyout option kills a raw competitor AND the danger of a Photoshop killer in the future.

Yeah, right Herb. . .in what universe?

RSP a "Photoshop Killer"? Surely you jest...it was a simple little raw processor for Windows, prolly put a hurt on Phase One to a degree, impact Photoshop? Not in your lifetime...

In the grand scheme of things, I couldn't care less what you may think...and time will tell whether Michael makes an impact on the dev of Lightroom & Camera Raw or if working for Adobe makes an impact on Michael.

Pretty sure it will be Michael impacting Lightroom/Camera Raw-pretty sure he already has since it's been stated in George's podcasts that the next LR beta will have Fill Light and Vibrance. You know, two features from RSP...

So Herb, you go right ahead and feel screwed by Adobe (I presume you own an RSP license? So, when you get your free license to Lightroom, maybe you'll feel even more screwed?)...

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I have a lot of respect for the work done by Adobe on many fronts, but Pixmantec did IMHO manage to better ACR in very little time at just about every level (workflow, conversion quality, interface,...). Who is going to learn from who?

Oh, I have no doubt there will be plenty of learning back and forth between Thomas and Michael. RSP came about so fast because Michael had a -LOT- of experience (and some might suspect some code) from his days at Phase One-but Phase didn't seem too upset with Michael when he left...on the other hand, Thomas has pretty much single handedly reversed engineered over 100 camera raw file formats (with some help from Dave Coffin and a couple of others), defined a standardized raw file format -DNG- and has been in the digital imaging biz a few years too. He did co-author Photoshop remember. Personally, from what I've heard in the podcasts and talking with Thomas, he's tickled to get Michael on his team and figures Camera Raw and Lightroom will take a big leap in processing quality, speed and other bennies...

So, ya'll can look at the glass half empty or half full (or continue to "feel screwed") but the RSP users will be getting a free license to Lightroom when it ships and it'll be a lot better for having Michael around. Let's talk next year at this time and see if the RSP users are still upset that Adobe bought pixmantec, ok?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 10:58:20 PM by Schewe » Logged
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