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Author Topic: MR's Aptus Vs Phase musings  (Read 65597 times)
MarkKay
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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2006, 02:02:03 AM »
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Steve I think you are right.  
 When i called around including KaptureGroup, I was told there was no way to hook the Leaf up to a ROllei 6008AF.  I thought  the previous poster was speaking of a new sliding back I was not familiar with but perhaps he was mistaken.

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Mark:

I don't know of a way that Leaf goes on Rollei, since the mount has to come in either:

*Hasselblad H
*Hasselblad V
*Contax 645
*Mamiya 645 AFD

I'm not aware of any 3rd party adapters to these mounts for Rollei. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Phase would seem to be in the same position. To my knowledge (or lack of it), the only digital backs that go on Rollei are Sinar and Hasselblad.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2006, 03:13:33 AM »
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I've been using the Sinar eMotion 22 with a Rollei 6008 for a while now and find it a wonderful combination. The buffer in the Sinarback can handle a lot of images before filling up; so much that I don't actually use compact flash cards any more. The lenses are great and if you look around you can get some real bargains. I almost forgot - the back can easily be rotated.

I use a 1DSII as well, but to be honest (with a few notable exceptions) I find the lenses rather average. I've heard that they are finally getting round to sorting this out as the camera is pretty good. I tend to use short focal lengths and wideangles on the Canon and this is where their lens range seem to be at their weakest.

By the way when I was looking for a back for the Rollei I really wanted a Leaf but since they don't fit I got the Sinar instead...

Regards,

Carl
www.alephstudio.co.uk
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Fritzer
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« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2006, 07:35:27 AM »
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awww, come on James.

none of them really are modern designs, all have very old AF systems, exposure evalutation and processing power, plus they are designed to transport film! (remember that?)  Once you've got used to a modern dslr, its embarrasing to step back to 1980's design MF equipment. and positively humiliating to have to put your $30,000 digital back on it.

about the only point we agree on is the value - and thats only because everyone is dumping them.

As for Contax 645 (which I use too) - you cant choose shutter speeds in fraction of an F stop - its 1/60 OR 1/30 - with nothing in between. the AF is center spot only. it turns itself off after 5 secs and is slow to wake up. it eats batteries and the lenses are just ok, but not remotely up to MF digital. And this is what I have to use? I'd happily pay 2x or 3x for something decent, modern and designed in this century.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I'm one of the many studio photographers who wouldn't be caught dead with one of those small format cameras...  
Granted, I don't do snapshots which require extensive camera electronics, I don't even need autofocus.
My main camera is a Sinar - a design dating back some 150 years - and it can not possibly be replaced for my way to work by some little plastic box with lots of buttons on it and a tiny hole of a viewfinder in the back.

When I'm in a hurry, I still have the RZ to shoot with.
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narikin
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« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2006, 08:58:06 AM »
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James we are *both* using the contax 645 system - so you dont need to sell it to me!
we agree its a good working choice, and amazing value right now... but it was designed aeons ago, and is just not up to the mark today. The lenses are decent workhorses, but not good enough for a modern MF digiback.

I have no wish to slam it, as its what I use - its in my bag and I'm about to go out for the day with it and the P45, BUT, I would love a freshly designed MF camera with a matrix AF system, serious digital pro quality lenses, modern power management, and full camera-digiback dialogue.
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DavidLehman
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« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2006, 12:08:18 PM »
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After briefly trying James' Contax (and Super Rotator), I was all set to sell off my H1 kit, remount my Aptus, and experience focal plane shutter bliss. Really wanted the Hassy 110/2, the t/s lens, and any other coke bottle lens I could dream up. However, the cost was prohibitive to swap the mounts (2100$ in the US, about double the Euro cost really), and I have semi-refallen for the H1.

I just spent a few weeks in China with the H1/A65 combo using mostly the 80/2.8 and I was able to handhold down to about 1/60th eventually. (http://www.davidrlehman.com/shaping) All the way up to ISO 800 produced a very usable file (I process in RD). Brought my D2x kits as well, and wanted to leave em behind after getting back into the swing of things with the H1. Done with 35mm - hated the 1ds2 files (and I know I'm not alone on that), the proportions, etc. The Rollei 6008 looks beautiful, and those lenses...yummy. By the way, why is no one mentioning that Rollei offers a digital bundle for the 6008 that comes with a Phase P20 back?

I went with the A65 over the P30 for the LCD. And if you're not cupping it, it's difficult to see outside, but it is eminently usable, if that's your thing. I've gotten to a point with the H1/A65 where I don't check the LCD at all really, I'm confident that it delivered what I expect - and I would pay 10x what I have invested for predictability alone. I may have to massage the file later, but I know what I'm getting. So now that I rendered my initial reasoning moot, perhaps I'd reconsider the P30 (it is a frickin' tank and makes a beautiful file as well).

Now, here is my main problem with how the reviews are done. Where is the link to the forum conversation? Tons of people come here for Michael's opinion as if it were the be all/end all (and that's all well and good). However, there will always be disagreement (and agreement) and this forum here is the vehicle in which that gets passed - yet it is buried away. I had to google to find the link to it. I would like to see at the bottom of reviews a link to a discussion on the review. Issues that are being discussed here are just as important as the review itself, maybe even more so. It would also introduce people to a forum that they may not even have known existed previously.

Best,
David Lehman
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 12:15:46 PM by DavidLehman » Logged

pss
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« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2006, 12:15:23 PM »
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the only phase back the rollei can take is the P20 that comes with the rollei bundle...the phase backs are about 1.5mm too tall to rotate on the rollei, so phase would have had to re-engeneer the whole back, which obviously did not happen...so they went with sinar/emotion..(there was one more reason: phase only sold them the backs in large shipments, sinar does not ask for large quanities, makes it easier for rollei to keep inventory down...)
the emotion22/75 is by far the most advanced (i am not saying the best) back out there: a large buffer (ram) which has 2 advantages: shoots faster then all the others AND provides instant back-up! if you shoot a 4gig card, everything is also stored in the buffer! brilliant!
the screen: a little too small (about the size of the phase) but readable with much better color...brilliant!
from the samples i have seen, the quality is just as good as phase and leaf and the software is just as good as leaf, but not as good as C1....i believe it also shoots DNG?
so what is missing? a solid marketing hype in the US...
leaf and phase really made the whole discussion about which system is the best...because once you are locked into one or the other oyu are also locked into a system...the argument that the backs have to fit just so to provide results: anyone who has worked with hassV and RZ/RBs know how "tight" film backs fit after years of changing backs fast....hasselblad, the only camera manufacturer sells backs that fit on all systems!

about rollei: you can buy them at B&H, Samys, Adorama and many smaller stores, a 6008af outfit is more then a mamiya 645afDII outfit and less then H2 outfit, so i am not sure in which way they are so expensive....
the lenses are superb, half synch up to 1/1000...noone else has that, they are in line with hasselblad lenses pricewise and a much larger range...
there is the X-act II which accepts all 6000 accessories and lenses and makes S/F lenses obsolete (but they do have one anyway)....noone else has anything even remotely close (in terms of system integration)...
check ebay for prices, the 6000system accepts accessories from the last 35? years including lenses...you can literally buy a whole system for the price of a mamiya system and it will accept imacon/hasselblad and sinar/emotion backs...

about the 645 rumors (which i have been hearing for a year now and hope fully finally come true): one of the things i hate the most about the H1/2 is that i shoot 90% vertical, so unless rollei comes out with a vertical 645 (talk about mirror issues!), i am not sure in which way it will improve on my 6008...the lenscoverage has to be the same, but to rotate you have to rotate the camera, which i don't like...
but this is rollei, who have been first in pretty much every MF advancement (metering, af,...) so they might come with something really interesting...

so i hope for a: rollei 645af all in one digital like the ZD, but 16bit, accepting all rollei lenses...with the emotion end (oled screen, built in buffer, dalsa chip, 22mpix)....and a marketing campaign to match...i am not holding my breath...with the new sinar M out (talk about expensive!!!) i just can't see sinar working that closely with rollei to cut into their own market...
so maybe just a 645, smaller and more compact then 6008...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 12:23:48 PM by pss » Logged

James Russell
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« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2006, 03:57:14 PM »
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James we are *both* using the contax 645 system - so you dont need to sell it to me!
we agree its a good working choice, and amazing value right now... but it was designed aeons ago, and is just not up to the mark today. The lenses are decent workhorses, but not good enough for a modern MF digiback.

I have no wish to slam it, as its what I use - its in my bag and I'm about to go out for the day with it and the P45, BUT, I would love a freshly designed MF camera with a matrix AF system, serious digital pro quality lenses, modern power management, and full camera-digiback dialogue.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

These camera choices get complicated and usually quite personal.  Not personal in the way I get angry, just personal in the way that once I find something that works for me it becomes mine.

In the film days I had three sets of cameras, Deardorf, Nikons and Bronicas. They all did different things are were used for different reasons, but never (or hardly ever) for more detail.

I used them for the look.   A 35mm just works like a 35, fast, spontaneous, where the Bronicas were money cameras, slower, a little more room to crop and easier for me and the client to edit.  

Deardorffs were usually for me, and a few select jobs because the lenses were old, the camera rattled, but it was imposing and forced me and the subject into a certain look:

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/v/]http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/v/[/url]

Digital capture changed all of that because the cameras are expensive, take a year to really learn the workflow and the way the file looks  and until recently only dslrs offered the on set workflow of film.

Now the newer digital backs allow me to almost cover all worlds from 35 to 8x10.  Not because of detail but because of look.

This (shot with the Aptus and the Contax) is a medium format look

http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/n/

It fast, it's commercial and it's in focus (hopefully).  There is enough area to crop and a frame ratio that fits the page.

I can shoot this with a Contax and H-1 or a Rollei and not see much difference.

This to me is the digital equivelent of a view camera look:

http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/lg/

http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/lk_retouch/index.htm

It's static, it's directed in front of the camera and shooting with a tilt shift and tethered I work the powerbook like the ground glass to a view camera, checking as I go.

This I can't do with an H-1.

Early on like many I used the 1ds (and briefly the 1ds2) and could get a look like medium format, but the frame size throws me.  It always looks too tight or cropped, but that is more my experience that 35mm "should" look like 35mm

http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com/k/

Still, this is all personal and there really are no wrong choices as long as what you use works for you.

JR
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pprdigital
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« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2006, 04:31:03 PM »
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so i hope for a: rollei 645af all in one digital like the ZD, but 16bit, accepting all rollei lenses...with the emotion end (oled screen, built in buffer, dalsa chip, 22mpix)....and a marketing campaign to match...i am not holding my breath...with the new sinar M out (talk about expensive!!!) i just can't see sinar working that closely with rollei to cut into their own market...
so maybe just a 645, smaller and more compact then 6008...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74658\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Rollei/Sinar 22 Emotion bundles are available for $23,600 US through Rollei. Buying through Sinar, $23,600 gets you the Sinar 22 EMotion only. So, if Rollei is camera you want, along with the Sinar 22 Emotion, go through Rollei and get the camera free. But don't buy through B&H, Adorama, etc. Go through a Sinar Digital-authorized dealer who is also Rollei authorized (most are). That way, you'll be buying from someone who can actually support your Sinar/Rollei combination completely.

It will be interesting to see how Sinar handles the distribution of the new Rollei D-SLR (it seems this is going to happen, and probably be announced at Photokina). Marketing has never been Sinar's strongsuit, but the Sinar M won't have an impact on their marketing efforts of the new Rollei system - it really doesn't compete with that. In fact, it's so expensive, I'm not quite sure what it competes with.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2006, 06:19:24 PM »
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steve, i simply meant that rollei is widely available...in most stores everybody knows...
there is something about the emotion backs i don't understand: leaf rates their aptus22 and 75 at 50-400 and 100-800, sinar the emotion 22 at 25-200 and the 75 at 50-400, yet they have the same dalsa chip....i wonder if sinar keeps in a stop slower for quality reasons...from my own experience with both leaf and phase i know that the asa ratings are almost "starting points" that can be pushed or pulled a stop without losing too much info...
that is the one thing i don't like about the emotion22, that it only goes to 200, i like the 25, but sometimes you just need a little more then 200....

so the 645 is in fact a D-SLR? anything else we can get you to say about it?

about the rollei/emotion bundle: wasn't there a trade-in deal by sinar? ANY working back means 8000 off the emotion75? meaning you get a 22 and trade up for the 75 when they are out? i am not sure about the details, and it was a couple of months ago, but it really looked good...

still: 23,600 including camera is pretty sweet, but compared to 10,000 for the rollei/P20...
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pprdigital
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« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2006, 07:00:22 PM »
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steve, i simply meant that rollei is widely available...in most stores everybody knows...
there is something about the emotion backs i don't understand: leaf rates their aptus22 and 75 at 50-400 and 100-800, sinar the emotion 22 at 25-200 and the 75 at 50-400, yet they have the same dalsa chip....i wonder if sinar keeps in a stop slower for quality reasons...from my own experience with both leaf and phase i know that the asa ratings are almost "starting points" that can be pushed or pulled a stop without losing too much info...
that is the one thing i don't like about the emotion22, that it only goes to 200, i like the 25, but sometimes you just need a little more then 200....

so the 645 is in fact a D-SLR? anything else we can get you to say about it?

about the rollei/emotion bundle: wasn't there a trade-in deal by sinar? ANY working back means 8000 off the emotion75? meaning you get a 22 and trade up for the 75 when they are out? i am not sure about the details, and it was a couple of months ago, but it really looked good...

still: 23,600 including camera is pretty sweet, but compared to 10,000 for the rollei/P20...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74686\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Leaf Aptus 22 is actually ISO 25-400, the Aptus 75 ISO 50-800. So, natively, the Sinar and Leaf are the same.

You're right though, about native ISO and pushing it. The amount a product can push it is a testament to the software algorithm.

I don't know that the Rollei D-SLR is factual, I only know something's coming, and it involves a new camera. It may be a Rollei/Sinar combo (camera/digiback). Just projecting.

There was, and still is a trade-in of any digital back for $8,000 off a Sinar 75. The Sinar 75 is out, so any interim step of a 22 is unecessary at this point.

The Rollei/P20 bundle is a deal. However, with the possible exception of software, the Emotion 22 beats a P20 significantly in almost every way: Much better display screen, 4GB built-in storage, dual-write to internal storage and CF card, no buffer for over 100 images, 22MP vs 16MP, 48x36 vs 37x37, etc.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2006, 07:45:27 PM »
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James, a bit off topic, but can you comment on the Hartblei Superrotator? I've been considering buying one of the 35mm versions for my 1Ds. I'm actually looking for something kind of "messed up", sort of a high end lens baby. I'd like to be able to shoot with selective focus. I require reasonable sharpeness for the in focus area.

Cheers,
Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I suspect that there is a mistake here, Leaf does not make their backs with Rollei mounts. If they did my Aptus 75 would be sitting on a 6008AF and NOT my H2.
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rethmeier
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« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2006, 09:21:46 PM »
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I suspect that there is a mistake here, Leaf does not make their backs with Rollei mounts. If they did my Aptus 75 would be sitting on a 6008AF and NOT my H2.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe this is correct!
Therefore I'll probably go the eMotion-75 way!
Sinar and Rollei and Alpa make a nice combo!
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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pss
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« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2006, 01:25:46 PM »
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There was, and still is a trade-in of any digital back for $8,000 off a Sinar 75. The Sinar 75 is out, so any interim step of a 22 is unecessary at this point.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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so what is the price for the 75? i guess there is no rollei bundle with the 75, and if there is, the trade-in deal would not apply...i wonder if there are any refurb. emotion 22s coming out...altough it seems that the 75 is the way to go anyway, the extra mpix are clearly a step up and the extra stop really is nice (the 25-200 of the 22 are a drawback...)

either way i think it is funny to see quite a few people in here so unhappy with the H1...because there are alternatives...rollei and contax seem to be the forgottten ones...and rollei seems to be in that position  only because neither phase nor leaf make backs for them...
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narikin
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« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2006, 04:40:40 PM »
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realised last night, that what we are all nattering about is 'Hybrid MF' - old MF film cameras with digital backs grafted on. perhaps this could be useful as a term for this point of development?

what we are just beginning to see are full MF Digital solutions, with ground up designs for the new era - like the Sinar M, and maybe this new Rollei (?).

I cant imagine that anyone is going to develop a camera and allow Phase or Leaf to take the bigger $ profit in the backs, so expect some incompatibility to emerge. as they force you to buy their backs, which could mean some problems for the indie back makers.

This is aleady the case to some degree, as Sinar doesnt make any M fitting for Phase or Leaf - you must buy their back for that camera. This may seem like a good business model at first, but are all those who have already invested $30,000 in a back going to write that off? I dont think so. Sadly they seem to have shot themselves in the foot with the pricing of the M anyways, ($28,000 for camera + 2 lenses, and another $28,000 for the back) but hopefully someone else will get it right.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 04:48:03 PM by narikin » Logged
rethmeier
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« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2006, 05:11:24 PM »
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There is no point in speculating about the new Rollei 645 system.
We just have to wait and see,however are we having the same issues that we have to tip the camera on it's side,when shooting in portrait mode?
Very likely!
That's the beauty of the 6008/eMotion combo!
You can rotate the back!
I might add it depends on your shooting style as well.
Most of my stuff is tripod based,so the 6008 is great.
We all know about the optics,expensive but certainly the best in the business.
PhotoKina here we come!
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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James Russell
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« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2006, 05:18:43 PM »
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There is no point in speculating about the new Rollei 645 system.
We just have to wait and see,however are we having the same issues that we have to tip the camera on it's side,when shooting in portrait mode?
Very likely!
That's the beauty of the 6008/eMotion combo!
You can rotate the back!
I might add it depends on your shooting style as well.
Most of my stuff is tripod based,so the 6008 is great.
We all know about the optics,expensive but certainly the best in the business.
PhotoKina here we come!
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Personally, I don't understand any of these smaller cameras with a leaf shutter.  I can understand the flash sync, but the lenses are over priced, usually slow and not any better quality.

Still, to me it's about the glass and the digital back, the center section is just there to hold the two together.

Given that I want as many options for glass and I can find (new or used) and the most viable back I can put on it which allows me to work tethered, untethered and fairly quick.

I'm not a fan of the all in one, but if that's what anybody is jonesin for then just buy a Canon.

They're more than happy to take your money every two years.

JR
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pss
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« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2006, 05:20:24 PM »
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There is no point in speculating about the new Rollei 645 system.
We just have to wait and see,however are we having the same issues that we have to tip the camera on it's side,when shooting in portrait mode?
Very likely!
That's the beauty of the 6008/eMotion combo!
You can rotate the back!

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
unless rollei makes a narrow and long mirror, the camera would have to be turned on its side to shoot vertical, just like H1,contac,mamiya,pentax....there is no other way...and making a long narrow mirror really has no space/weigh saving advantage over a square mirror...so the rollei 645 would have to be held vertical as well to shoot vertical...i think i would stay with my 6008...
but undoubtedly this would bring some well needed fresh air into the MF market...a "ZD" from rollei!!
oh the fun of speculating!!! we have about 4 weeks left to come up with all kinds of details!!
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« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2006, 05:36:01 PM »
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Personally, I don't understand any of these smaller cameras with a leaf shutter.  I can understand the flash sync, but the lenses are over priced, usually slow and not any better quality.


JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i am not sure there is faster  lens line up in MF then rolleis: 40/3.5, 50/2.8, 80/f2, 110/f2, 180/f2.8 and these lenses want to be used wide open....

i don't really want a all in one either, but as a back-up instead of canon (which i just don't use anymore anyway..) it would be great, especially if it completely ties in with the system...
imagine a rollei family with its top of the line lenses shooting anything from compact 645 to 6x6 to "4x5" (x-act) film or digital...all with 1/500 or 1/1000 synch speed...no matter how much they charge for the lenses, the versatility would make it a bargain...
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« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2006, 06:01:49 PM »
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As Sinar is involved?, the new Rollei 645 will and should have a removable back.that can be used on the 6008 and on the X-Act II.

Like Paul said,that would be a great integrated system!

4 weeks to go!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 06:23:14 PM by rethmeier » Logged

Willem Rethmeier
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James Russell
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« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2006, 09:22:45 AM »
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As Sinar is involved?, the new Rollei 645 will and should have a removable back.that can be used on the 6008 and on the X-Act II.

Like Paul said,that would be a great integrated system!

4 weeks to go!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It's funny a year ago everyone complained that the db's were not up to the level of medium format cameras.  

A friend of mine said he sold his H-1 because to him it was like towing a u-haul trailer with a Ferrari.

Now I'm not a real fan of the H-1/2, but it is interesting that since this time, Leaf, Imacon, Sinar and Phase have raised their game with higher iso, faster compressed shooting rates and except for Phase much improved lcd's.

As far as Rollei and Sinar they in the U.S. they have no real professional presence.  I know some people are going to respond that they saw 3 6008's at B+H or Samy's cameras, but I've gone to the Rollei introductions where they promise new product, increased rental presence and better support only to see them go back into invisible mode.

I've walked into Adorama and asked to see a 6008 and got the response "well I think we have one upstairs, but I'd have to find and and we'll I don't know where the lenses are.".

To me, Rollei and Sinar getting together to introduce new product is like Mel Gibson and Michael Jackson meeting to solve their public relations issues.  

Maybe I'm wrong and they will introduce killer product, at an affordable price point that is available everywhere, with a large presence of rental items and country based service and training.  

The service/training is very important with these backs as they do take a while to learn properly and is one of Leaf's strong points as you can always call and usually in minutes speak to Rick Ashead in person, or Yair by e-mail and get a usable response and solution to an issue.  Mamiya America which handles Leaf in the U.S. does all repairs in the U.S.

Yair is the only manufacturer's rep that comes on any of these forums AND takes and answers the hard questions, rather than just introduce new product and go back into hiding.

We see that a lot in digital capture where there is this flurry of press releases, a few reps post road maps to the future, then we are left on our own to find the solutions or answer our own questions.

The Mamiya ZD is the latest example of this and even though there is now another review of the ZD on this website, other than show a few images it really tells us nothing about frame rates, buffer, speed to process jpeg and tiffs, lcd use, white balance from daylight, tungsten, mixed light, strobe and service, tech support, user installed firmware updates, etc. etc.

For any of these products to be successful for the professional there has to be the whole package of what I've just mentioned.  

I think a lot of people are looking at the Zd and the Canon solely as a lower cost alternative to the digital backs which is fine if it works for you, but I have heard few people tell me they like a dslr file or image proportion better than a medium format back.

In fact everyone I know that useds the Canons, or Nikons always mention price in relationship to the camera/file/look.

Today, I feel most of these digital backs can be viewed as a 5 year purchase which unlike the dslrs means worrying about camera upgrades, lens options almost a mute point.

Actually the lack of upgrades is the reason I went with the Contax, (that and I like the camera), because their are no new firmware updates I will need if I buy a lens and obviously Contax has no agenda to move me to another camera, lens or back.  

As we know, today Contax has no agenda at all.

JR

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