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Author Topic: New Canon Camera & Lenses  (Read 30876 times)
Gary Ferguson
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« on: August 23, 2006, 02:58:19 AM »
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Rumours are circulating that information is now leaking onto retailers and subsidiary web sites regarding some new Canon equipment. The Canon China site, a US retailer, and a French photography magazine are all being quoted.

The products include a 10.1MP "400D" camera with a 2.5 inch LCD screen and 9 point AF. Plus two new lenses, the long awaited 70-200 4.0 IS and a 50mm 1.2.

No word however on the new wide-angle Canon optics that a Canon senior manager hinted at some months ago in an interview when he conceded that "sensor development had been faster than lens development, especially wide-angle lens development".
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 03:03:56 AM »
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Bob Atkins has a link to the Canon China site so it looks for real, auto dust removal is another feature,

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digit...n_eos_400D.html

I wonder why no news on a 1Ds MkIII? Maybe this release is a "spoiler" for Nikon's recent announcement, and the 1Ds MkIII (and hopefully some wide-angle announcements) are being held back for Photokina?
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 07:43:44 AM »
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It's about this time in the hype cycles that the rumours start to converge.  The convergence I've detected re the new 1d is that it won't be announced on the 24th, but more likely in the week or so prior to PhotoK.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 09:08:09 AM »
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Bah!
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 10:26:48 AM »
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Hmmm... Since the 12MP 5D outdid the 1Ds2 to due to "insignificant image detail difference especially for the price difference", it will be interesting to see what the 400D pricepoint will be relative to the 5D.  Since it appears we've hit near practical maximums for "what's really necessary" in resolution we now will be looking to new features.  And ultra-sonic dust removal combined with low noise, great color and 10MP seems like it could be a real winner!  Makes one wonder what folks have to say about it versus the 5D in a few months.  

These are indeed exciting times for digital photography!

Cheers,
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2006, 10:55:34 AM »
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These are indeed exciting times for digital photography!
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(Sigh) If only Canon could produce exceptional wide angle lenses.  Instead, we are having to do work-arounds like stitching 90mm verticals and adapting exotic Zeiss and Leica lenses.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2006, 11:11:18 AM »
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Where's in body IS?   Where?

@#$%@^%@!!!!!!
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2006, 11:13:38 AM »
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(Sigh) If only Canon could produce exceptional wide angle lenses.  Instead, we are having to do work-arounds like stitching 90mm verticals and adapting exotic Zeiss and Leica lenses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is unfortunate and I have no doubt Canon *CAN* produce them, but why they don't is a puzzle.  However, FWIW (rumor only) one line of thinking is that they have silently updated some designs such as the 24mm TSE -- and interestingly, the latest versions of these seem to be pretty darn good showing virtually no CA and good resolution (over 45 line pairs) to the corners at the 8mm shift mark.

Cheers,
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DaveW
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2006, 11:36:14 AM »
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Where's in body IS?   Where?

@#$%@^%@!!!!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74228\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Apparently its in at least one new Olympus camera  - although of 10 new P&S cameras announced, only one contains the CCD shift stabilization.
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macgyver
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2006, 06:16:49 PM »
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The sesor I understand, but for many wont that and the AF cut into 30D space?
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DiaAzul
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2006, 06:48:20 PM »
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The sesor I understand, but for many wont that and the AF cut into 30D space?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74283\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Don't forget, the shows not over until the fat lady sings - 10Mpix in a 1.6 crop is about 25Mpix full frame.
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David Plummer    http://photo.tanzo.org/
Ray
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 07:37:14 PM »
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A 10mp 1.6 crop sensor is a credible rumour, but unless Canon have simultaneously reduced noise, it won't be much of an upgrade for those who already have a 350D. The extra resolution provided by those 2 additional mp will be less than the additional 2mp of the 20D over the 10D, which was quite small anyway for most real world images.

Canon seem to have a policy of never going backwards on the noise front, so I'd expect the slightly smaller pixels of the 400D to have at least equal noise characteristics to the 350D, on a pixel for pixel basis, which would mean that for equal size prints, over all noise would be slightly less apparent and resolution (possibly) very slightly greater.
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 09:37:57 PM »
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The extra resolution provided by those 2 additional mp will be less than the additional 2mp of the 20D over the 10D, which was quite small anyway for most real world images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know Ray...  

The 12 MP of the 5D equaled the 16 MP of the 1Ds2 in many people's minds.  Extrapolating that logic --  that the 25% fewer pixels of the newer 5D were as good as the older 16MP camera -- it is easy to see that a new 10MP chip could equal or even exceed the 5D's older 12MP design since that is even less of a difference at 18% or so.


Cheers,
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 10:13:50 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

Ray
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 10:11:28 PM »
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...it is easy to see that a new 10MP chip could equal or even exceed the 5D's older 12MP design since that is even less of a difference at 18% or so...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74295\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jack,
I take your point and if this were to happen I might find myself in a similar position to yours when the 5D was released, ie. struggling to justify the superior resolving power of the much more expensive 1Ds2   .

I suppose the outcome will depend largely on the noise characteristics of those slightly smaller pixels. If Canon pull some more rabbits out of the hat and succeed in making the 400D pixels even less noisy than the 20D pixels, perhaps through greater quantum efficiency, then we can probably look forward to some protracted arguments comparing the 400D image quality with the 5D, especially considering the 400D will be accessing the sweet spot of the image circle.

However, we should bear in mind that, as pixel density increases, the sensor struggles to record the higher resolution from the lens (which usually exists) because of falling contrast or lower MTF of such higher resolution, therefore the increase in recorded image resolution is not proportional to the increase in sensor pixel density. There's a 'law of diminishing returns' at work.

Whatever the outcome, 5D owners can remain smugly content that their wide angle lenses are truly wide angle   .
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 10:18:25 PM »
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However, we should bear in mind that, as pixel density increases, the sensor struggles to record the higher resolution from the lens [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74297\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, but  the pixels of a 1.6 sensor camera are definitely riding in the sweet-spot of the lens -- AND Canon has historically improved noise when diminishing pixel size, even in their P&S cameras.  

So perhaps we should also bear in mind your argument that the smaller pixels in the 20/30D can be an advantage in many shooting situations... Coupled with the above, then the even smaller pixels of the new 400D should combine to make the 400D a veritable 5D killer!

Cheers,
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 10:21:57 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 10:31:25 PM »
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With all due respect, I find it really funny that many a Canon users now start to believe that a 10MP Canon APS sized sensor might be pretty close to a 16 MP FF 1ds2...

...while Nikon D2x users have been claiming the same for years but were hardly ever listened to...

cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
Ray
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 11:06:49 PM »
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With all due respect, I find it really funny that many a Canon users now start to believe that a 10MP Canon APS sized sensor might be pretty close to a 16 MP FF 1ds2...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bernard,
That's not quite the point that Jack's making. The differences between the 1Ds2 and 5D are so slight that many folks were unable see them. Jack is now implying that similarly hardly detectable differences might exist between the 400D and the 5D, which might upset a few 5D owners.

It's not going to upset me, though, because cameras are not status symbols for me. They are merely tools, and the 5D is a tool that will always behave differently in relation to my wide angle lenses, compared with the 1.6 cropped format.

However, if Canon were to also release a 'superb' 10mm EF-S lens, equal to the best Zeiss or Digitar lenses, with a 70% MTF response at 60 lp/mm etc, then I'd eat my heart out   .
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oldcsar
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2006, 12:27:58 AM »
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This isn't just a credible rumour... it's on Canon's page with downloadable sample pictures:

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital3/index.html
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 12:35:02 AM by oldcsar » Logged

Jack Flesher
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2006, 12:38:54 AM »
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With all due respect, I find it really funny that many a Canon users now start to believe that a 10MP Canon APS sized sensor might be pretty close to a 16 MP FF 1ds2...

...while Nikon D2x users have been claiming the same for years but were hardly ever listened to...

cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Agreed -- and Leica users have been saying the same regarding the DMR and it's 11 MP 1.3x sensor...

Cheers,
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macgyver
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2006, 01:08:58 AM »
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With all due respect, I find it really funny that many a Canon users now start to believe that a 10MP Canon APS sized sensor might be pretty close to a 16 MP FF 1ds2...

...while Nikon D2x users have been claiming the same for years but were hardly ever listened to...

cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Aye.
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