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Author Topic: HP B9180 Photosmart Pro review  (Read 21234 times)
Andrew W
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2006, 11:00:21 PM »
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I have heard reports of "shipping" but have not seen it available. Any idea of when it will be "widely" available?

I will say this, I went onto the HP site and requested print samples, which they provided promptly. I was impressed. Especially with the Matte Canvas in Black and White.

Andrew W
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[span style='color:green'][span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%']Andrew W[/span][/span]


Will2
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2006, 03:18:22 PM »
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Excellent, useful review.  I would like to read more on B&W and color text quality.  Any experience here?
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nigeldh
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2006, 09:23:30 PM »
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Neil,

Very glad see that you mentioned that the B9180 uses a larger, 28ml, ink cartridges.

Do you have any cost per print data? Or do I take your 90 A3 prints and the cost of 8 ink cartridges then do the math?

8 x US $29, discounted = $232 so 90 prints have an ink cost of $2.58

A3 -- 297 x 420 mm -- 11,7 x 16,5 in or .124 sq m, 193 sq in.

This implies that an 8"x12" has an ink cost of almost $2 which seems high.

thanks in advance, Nigel
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2006, 10:37:25 PM »
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There is some print numbers in this guy's B9180 blog....

http://www.cliffaddy.com/b9180.html

Other really good info in there, too.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2006, 06:48:58 AM »
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Neil,

Very glad see that you mentioned that the B9180 uses a larger, 28ml, ink cartridges.

Do you have any cost per print data? Or do I take your 90 A3 prints and the cost of 8 ink cartridges then do the math?

8 x US $29, discounted = $232 so 90 prints have an ink cost of $2.58

A3 -- 297 x 420 mm -- 11,7 x 16,5 in or .124 sq m, 193 sq in.

This implies that an 8"x12" has an ink cost of almost $2 which seems high.

thanks in advance, Nigel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78505\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This can't be correct - there should be something wrong with the base data. For one thing, it is unlikely that all cartridges get exhausted at the same rate - I've never seen that happen on an Epson printer and there is no logic supporting such an event on any other printer; secondly, if those 90 prints were made after the printer's first charge-up, it is more than likely that a substantial amount of those cartridges were used for initial chasrging and not for printing. Under these conditions unless you measured the remaining ink after charge-up and before printing there is no way to know how much ink was used for charging and how much for prints. Finally, a good period of running time is needed to make sure the data is reliable.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2006, 07:06:30 AM »
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There is some print numbers in this guy's B9180 blog....

http://www.cliffaddy.com/b9180.html

Other really good info in there, too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78509\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I just read that blog - bears out what I said above on the costing issues. But the other information in there is cause for concern. By the way, if in fact the ink costs per print turn out to be about one dollar per 8*10, this looks to be substantially more than my Epson 4800 is costing me, even with cleaning cycles and clogs. As of September 29th my cumulated total cost of ink per print is 55 Canadian cents per 54 square inches of paper coverage (i.e. a 6 x 9 inch print on an 8.5 x 11 inch piece of paper). I don't know how much actual coverage these posters are printing on a letter-size sheet, so this comparison is a bit uncertain, but my data for my Epson 4800 is totally unambiguous.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
neil snape
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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 11:15:00 AM »
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The 4800 is cheaper to print than the 9180. There is more waste on the Epson but the 110 ml carts are going to make cost per copy less. If you change to and from matte media you're going to do better by having other than Epson.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 12:03:35 PM »
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The 4800 is cheaper to print than the 9180. There is more waste on the Epson but the 110 ml carts are going to make cost per copy less. If you change to and from matte media you're going to do better by having other than Epson.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just to make sure there's no confusion about the data, based on what is said above, the Epson 4800 appears to be less expensive for ink INCLUDING for the waste. The qualification is that the data for the HP is uncertain because the methodology for evaluating ink consumption per sq. in. is not properly articulated.

Regarding the last sentence above, it is premature to come to this conclusion, because Epson has just announced the 3800 and they claim that it will waste only a few ml of ink switching between matte and non-matte papers. That remains to be tested once production models are in use.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
neil snape
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« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2006, 12:34:57 PM »
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That's just based on a good idea of what it costs per cartridge and cost per volume.
cycling and cleaning is excessive with Piezo heads. I don't believe you can simply reduce it just like that so unless there is some miracle it sounds like a marketing idea knowing that clients are tired of the necessary maintenance of Piezo heads.

It is also considering that the prices on the Epson carts are not MSRL whereas the 9180 is just out. When the 9180 cart price falls they will come closer together which is great for users.
The competition for the 9180 is the 2400 obviously and in that circle the 9180 does a fine job of producing extremely lightfast prints at a low entry level price, with reasonably priced consumables with good efficiency.
While here I would like to remind readers that cost per ml and cost per print has to consider the consequences of sporadic printing. For example on the Epson printers one can plug in 220ml cartridges. The cost per ml goes down , but if you don't print consistently your repeatability also goes out the window. For a printer like the 9180 28ml (Europe) 27ml elsewhere, are correctly sized for trouble free printing, very high rate of repeatability. some things make sense for their intended clients, some don't.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2006, 01:40:13 PM »
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Neil, I know where you are coming from, but it is like I said: when the dust settles and when those users who know how to do it properly will have had enough time to SCIENTIFICALLY and TRANSPARENTLY MEASURE ink consumption on a standardized basis for both the HP 9180 and the forthcoming Epson 3800 we'll know which costs less in ink per square inch, all factors included. Until then it is an open horse race, at least on that parameter. The Epson 2400/4800 is history.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
nigeldh
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« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2006, 08:20:28 PM »
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I found this HP document via an other web site: HP Printer: Photo page yield details
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/...9180/photo.html

If the URL is chopped, search on: B9180 Photo page yield details
Based upon the numbers on that page, Light Gray is the killer

HP B9180 Printer   cost each 1/3 off list   cost per 11x17   11x17 pages   4x6 pages
HP 38 Photo Black Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.1602   180.96   1410
HP 38 Magenta Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.0452   641.71   5000
HP 38 Cyan Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.0481   603.21   4700
HP 38 Yellow Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.2689   107.81   840
HP 38 Light Magenta Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.4107   70.59   550
HP 38 Light Cyan Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.1779   162.99   1270
HP 38 Light Gray Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.7059   41.07   320
      $1.8168   est total cost of ink for 11x17   
      $1.3990   est total cost of ink per sq ft   
      $15.0602   est total cost of ink per sq m   
            
Supplemental cartridges            
HP 38 Matte Black Pigment Ink Cartridge   $28.99   $0.0753   385.03   3000
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duncandavidson
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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2006, 09:02:02 PM »
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I have heard reports of "shipping" but have not seen it available. Any idea of when it will be "widely" available?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I just received my B9180 today. Ordered two days ago on the HP Small Business store and shipped 2 day FedEx. Amazon still says 2-4 weeks however. Amazon does have ink in stock, however.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2006, 09:12:36 PM »
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$1.3990   est total cost of ink per sq ft   
 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is VERY close to the cost of ink per square foot that I have measured for my Epson 4800 over the period November 1 2005 to October 2, 2006 $1.47 Canadian). My cost figure includes all the ink expended on cleanings/maintenance except the initial charge-up which my accounting model includes in the investment cost of the machine.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
matt4626
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2006, 02:52:03 PM »
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Thanks for the review! My Epson 2200 just gave up (clogged print head) and I'm hoping to buy a new printer with a user replaceable head. HP looks like a good option.
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