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Author Topic: image permanence  (Read 2423 times)
Alchemist
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« on: August 30, 2006, 06:50:50 PM »
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Has anyone done some real permanence testing on todays inkjet printers, aftermarket inks and paper.? I do not mean the non verifiable data from Wilhelm or RIT, but accelerated data that has a 6 month or one year real world test daylight test (like Livic's discontinued work ) correlated to it. I believe that without this being done the reciprocity factors are just "swags" at best. My very controlled testing on dye based Epson inks, in the past, showed that the predictions from the experts were off by a factor of 3.

I want to purchase a new wide format printer and can not afford to make a mistake, given the current prices. Pointing me in the right direction will be appreciated.


Alchemist
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Gene Coggins
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2006, 07:54:27 PM »
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Has anyone done some real permanence testing on todays inkjet printers, aftermarket inks and paper.? I do not mean the non verifiable data from Wilhelm or RIT, but accelerated data that has a 6 month or one year real world test daylight test (like Livic's discontinued work ) correlated to it. I believe that without this being done the reciprocity factors are just "swags" at best. My very controlled testing on dye based Epson inks, in the past, showed that the predictions from the experts were off by a factor of 3.

I want to purchase a new wide format printer and can not afford to make a mistake, given the current prices. Pointing me in the right direction will be appreciated.
Alchemist
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You are completely in error in implying that the Whilhelm Research data is inaccurate and not "real world." Their data is found on actual scientific principles. They are the authority in print permanence. You should take the time to read the foot notes in their reported data and maybe even purchase their book on accelerated testing mehods and procedures.

Most dye based inks last only months. I have seen this myself with the Epson 1200. However, under certain conditions, pigmented inks can last for more than 200 years. That is a scientific fact.

A printer that has good print permanance would be the Epson 2400, 4800, 7800, 9800 or the new Cannon 9X00 printer. I personally own the 4800 and my works have been on display in galleries for over a year without any signs of color fading what so ever.

Gene
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Gene Coggins
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 08:00:43 PM »
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Has anyone done some real permanence testing on todays inkjet printers, aftermarket inks and paper.? I do not mean the non verifiable data from Wilhelm or RIT, but accelerated data that has a 6 month or one year real world test daylight test (like Livic's discontinued work ) correlated to it. I believe that without this being done the reciprocity factors are just "swags" at best. My very controlled testing on dye based Epson inks, in the past, showed that the predictions from the experts were off by a factor of 3.

I want to purchase a new wide format printer and can not afford to make a mistake, given the current prices. Pointing me in the right direction will be appreciated.
Alchemist
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In my last post, I ment to list the Connon ipf5000, not the 9x00 printer.

Gene
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Alchemist
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 09:40:08 PM »
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In my last post, I ment to list the Connon ipf5000, not the 9x00 printer.

Gene
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Gene,

I do not believe that I am wrong!  Wilhelm data is a good comparison of Epson pigment and a paper X being longer lasting than XYZ pigment and paper X.  And if you use it as a yardstick it implies that that combination lasted longer in the accelerated test.  It does not mean that it is a 100 year image, when exhibited at 450 lux.  I have never seen any data from him that shows a one year real world test data, compared  to the accererated data so that the reciprocity failure factors can be verified.  I used to do that back in the sixties when I tested paint samples for the aerospace industry.  Samples were run in an Atlas accelerated environmental test unit and at the same time samples were put under glass and uncovered on the roof and run for one and two years.  We then made reciprocity correction factors based on the amount of light the samples received over the one and two year period.  That is how the mil spec and ANSI used to do their testing.

So I ask the question again, Is their any real data out there that someone has published besides Livic?  I do not want to sell a print and have a customer sue me for rapid fading.  This happen to a number of photographers and fine artists who used several different manufacturers printers and papers that were accelerated tested and then began to fail well before the published life.

Alchemist
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 11:41:03 PM »
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Just don't guarantee longevity.
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