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Author Topic: New system from Hasselblad?  (Read 19203 times)
Nemo
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« on: August 31, 2006, 12:15:18 PM »
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Hasselblad could be developing a new system based on a 48x48mm sensor (or 36x48mm). This new system might be presented at the Photokina:

http://valentinsama.blogspot.com/2006/08/n...lblad-para.html

 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 11:59:59 AM by Nemo » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 12:35:24 PM »
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Now that would be strange. This isn't like the film days when cropping the square format was a cheap option. (The wasted film area was cheap). Digital sensors are expensive. Very few people want to shoot in square format most of the time, which means most one would have to constantly crop images from this camera and throw away 20-30% of the expensive megapixels. Much better to have a 4:3 sensor with a rotating back, imho!
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pss
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 03:23:21 PM »
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Much better to have a 4:3 sensor with a rotating back, imho!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
like the H1;)
but seriously...hasselblad had the 503/V96? combo which is square 16mpix and "cheap"....it does not compare to the rollei 6008/P20 bundle feature wise and just seemed a way for hass/imacon to get rid of they last square backs and to throw V system owners a bone....
but the idea that hasselbald will come out with a ...what ? 4x4 camera? cheap? maybe with it's own lenses? seriously doubt that....they can't produce a film back for less then $2000..so how much will they charge for a whole camera with back? it would have to be a bit under 9000-10000 and that would raise questions about their H1/2 pricing.....
16mpix square is great and absolutely enough for most applications (and a lot better then any DSLR)i shoot with a P20 myself..but it is in many ways 2 year old standard...there is no reason to make a new announcement with it...
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Nemo
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 04:04:22 PM »
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It is supposed to be an integrated camera, not a body-and-back modular camera.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 04:19:41 PM »
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like the H1;)
16mpix square is great and absolutely enough for most applications (and a lot better then any DSLR)i shoot with a P20 myself..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sure, that's why all the music, sports and event photographers use medium format, because it's so much better then any DSLR....    

Hasselblad IMHO need a medium format digital system that's priced to lure people from the DSLR systems, not scare them off...
I love the quality of medium format digital, but how much more money can you charge for the same job ?
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pss
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 04:48:42 PM »
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Sure, that's why all the music, sports and event photographers use medium format, because it's so much better then any DSLR....     


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i was talking about image quality...not handling...i don't think the majority of sports and event photographers ever shot MF..becuase of speed and handling...
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izaack
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 09:02:18 PM »
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Not another Fujiblad with rebranded Fujinon lenses. Not that there's anything wrong with that but if I want Fujinon, I'll buy Fujinon.

This one doesn't come out of Gothenburg but from the 'fecund' minds of Shriro and ex-I'm a con.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 09:03:57 PM by izaack » Logged
David Anderson
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 02:56:55 AM »
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i was talking about image quality...not handling...i don't think the majority of sports and event photographers ever shot MF..becuase of speed and handling...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75130\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

True, but image quality doesn't matter if you can't get a frame off because your medium format is lagging years behind in the handling stakes...

Hasselblad could put a lot of work in there..  

I can't wait..
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RobertJ
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2006, 08:16:16 PM »
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37x37mm is an old format, nothing exciting.  It's basically from the stone age in digital terms.  

First the Kodak Pro Back, then the V96, and there's about 2 or 3, (or 4, or 5, or 6) more backs with this size chip, including the newer 503CWD package.  We need something bigger.  After all, it's called "Medium Format" digital for a reason.  I'd rather shoot with Canon than spend money on a 37x37mm chip.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 08:17:08 PM by T-1000 » Logged
mcfoto
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2006, 09:31:29 PM »
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Quote from: T-1000,Sep 2 2006, 08:16 PM
37x37mm is an old format, nothing exciting.  It's basically from the stone age in digital terms.  

Well said! If we sre going to move forward make a digital FF chip for the Mamiya RZ. We can't be far off as Dalsa has a 4x4 chip made for Nasa. As that is the only 6x7 system left on the market.
Thanks denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 09:06:14 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto,Sep 3 2006, 02:31 AM
Quote from: T-1000,Sep 2 2006, 08:16 PM
37x37mm is an old format, nothing exciting.  It's basically from the stone age in digital terms.  

Well said! If we sre going to move forward make a digital FF chip for the Mamiya RZ. We can't be far off as Dalsa has a 4x4 chip made for Nasa. As that is the only 6x7 system left on the market.
Thanks denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75343\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am pretty sure, from my sources, that we will never see a 6x7 FF chip. In fact, one strong source doesn't feel we'll see anything bigger than 645. I believe him. There's no way the economy of scale works for anything bigger than 645.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
marcwilson
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2006, 09:45:32 AM »
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yes I do not think larger than 645 is strictly necessary.
As we can see from the image quality from some of the digital large format lenses if manufactures know this is the size then new lenses for slr medium format cameras and / or wide angle shift cameras can be designed specifically for these sensors in terms of both image quality and image circle for any possible movements.
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Quentin
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 11:00:44 AM »
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Haven't hassy already announced (and advertised) a digital back for legacy Hasselblads, with 16mp resolution?   A new camea might just be making the most of that already developed product.

Quentin
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Nemo
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 07:32:32 PM »
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It is supposed to be a new camera based on a new format with new lenses.
I find some logic in it.
The relation between size of the sensor and cost is exponential, not linear. For this reason, it is not the same game 35mm vs 645 than APS vs 35mm.
It was hard to offer 35mm sensors at reasonable prices. Only Canon does it actually. For 645 sensors is much more difficult to reduce the prices, due to sensor size and reduced scale of production. It makes sense to establish a new format, smaller than the original 645 or 6x6. That is the only possibility for Hasselblad and other MF manufacturers in the long run. 645 (cropped) sensors offer better image quality than 35mm full frame sensors, but the prices are too high. More affordable and versatile systems is the only way to compete against Canon.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 10:30:00 AM by Nemo » Logged
marcwilson
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2006, 01:46:40 PM »
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I have had a thought of what hasselblad may be trying to do here..get into the mf users who use dslr market and dslr users market.
Their new camera may be all in one, like a dslr, with a 37x37 square chip so no need to shoot portriat or landscape, just crop after, and if the lenses are based on their current H series ( and they bring out a new wider lens) then they give a big enough image circle to have good shift movements if hasselblad also relaease a shift adapter..as I am sure they will.

Looking at it like that this camera could be brilliant.
22 mp 16 bit etc sensor..so better i.q. than current dslr. better lenses than avaialble to current dslr., more shift options with top glass, so if you can live without super fast af etc this camera could be brilliant for those who want a dslr where the image quality is put above all other consideratiosn, whilst still in a fairly portable package and still with autofocus etc..

this will not take over the ground of view cameras but does I think take over the ground of medium format film and and dslr for those photographers who do not shoot sports, etc...
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SeanBK
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2006, 03:19:09 PM »
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Probably, supply their X-Pan camera & lenses with digital back "X1D" and that would take care of masses who wants entry level Hassey digital, who could be next year's H-D series buyers. That's my 2c.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2006, 03:30:02 PM »
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645 (cropped) sensors offer better image quality than 35mm full frame sensors, but the prices are too high. More affordable and versatile systems is the only way to compete against Canon.

I have to disagree. I think the main reasons to go with MF are: higher image quality, and bigger viewfinders.

The cost of sensor production is falling and will continue to do so until it becomes quite affordable. As long as the MF companies can hang on until then, they should enjoy a new era of success.

By introducing a short-term system like this which offers a smaller increase in IQ and viewfinder size than the full jump to 645, I don't see many people jumping on the bandwagon. If you crop this image with a 2:3 ratio, you will end up with ~24x37mm image and 15MP. Even if the dynamic range and colour is better than the Canon 1DsII (which I expect), that is not going to be enough to tempt people to swap platforms.
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Quentin
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 07:42:26 AM »
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By introducing a short-term system like this which offers a smaller increase in IQ and viewfinder size than the full jump to 645, I don't see many people jumping on the bandwagon. ]

I agree, sounds like a solution looking for a problem.   the Mamiya ZD is already smaller than a 1Ds and handles similarly to a 35mm dslr, so what do you gain by a new system with a smaller sensor?

Quentin
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RobertJ
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »
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I am pretty sure, from my sources, that we will never see a 6x7 FF chip. In fact, one strong source doesn't feel we'll see anything bigger than 645. I believe him. There's no way the economy of scale works for anything bigger than 645.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75367\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Famous last words, my friend.

If this is true, then digital just plain sucks.  I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
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damien
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2006, 05:09:55 PM »
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I've also heard that 6x4.5 is going to be it for sensors. Gang them together in arrays maybe, but bigger wafers are not really an option apparently. My P25 at 2 years old is still doing it's job well but the next generation of 42mp backs with lensed 6 micron sensors and useable at 1600 ISO will be all I will ever need. (probably).

Oh, and my H1 with it's P25 and my 210 lens is lighter than a Canon 1DSmk2 with 70-200. It is also better balanced. I don't shoot sport or pop concerts though. It's the right tool for my job shooting high end weddings and portraits. The quality in the image just leaps off the print like MF has always done.

If I was Hblad I'd want a 55mm sq 55mp sensor, pop it in a back that looks like an A12 and sell it for 10k. Wow that would be something to sing about.

Damien.
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