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Author Topic: Waist level finder and digital back ?  (Read 7385 times)
Marsupilami
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« on: September 01, 2006, 05:34:39 AM »
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Hello !

It might sound a little funny, but what I am really missing in digital Medium Format is the option to work also with a waist level finder. The new systems like hasselblad H1/2 or Mamiya AFD dont have that option. Is there a solution which works not only with old outdated backs, but with backs in the 20 MP range ? Are there backs which work with the old Mamiya 645 pro or with the Contax ? What are the problems I will get with such a system - metering with a hand held meter is not a problem for me
Why do I want to work with such a system ? As I am scanning my old pictures I encountered that the best pictures I made, I made with my old mamiya 645 System, best not in the sense of sharpness alone, but the composition is much better than the pictures made with the Nikons. I also seem to have some problem with composition through a SLR viewfinder, even the Canon 5 D is for me not very pleasant to use. While the versatility of that camera is certainly great and much better than any medium format system (Birds with Tele lens or high iso in a pub - just came back from a trip to Ireland), it is the feeling of having fun while taking pictures I totally miss with a SLR. As I am planning to go to Santorin in Greek the Idea of walking around with my Canon 5D is not pleasing me too much. No action shots there but a lot of beatiful houses, villages and great scenery.
Thanks for your help!

Christian
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 06:51:36 AM »
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I think the Hasselblad V system meets all your requirements.
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Marsupilami
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 07:21:07 AM »
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I think the Hasselblad V system meets all your requirements.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Looks nice, but a factor 1,5 with the lens means that I need special markings in the waist level finder and that the positive effect of a big finder is reduced quite a lot
?
But thanks for your tip!

Christian
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2006, 07:46:38 AM »
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It might sound a little funny, but what I am really missing in digital Medium Format is the option to work also with a waist level finder. The new systems like hasselblad H1/2 or Mamiya AFD dont have that option. Is there a solution which works not only with old outdated backs, but with backs in the 20 MP range ? Are there backs which work with the old Mamiya 645 pro or with the Contax ? What are the problems I will get with such a system - metering with a hand held meter is not a problem for me
Why do I want to work with such a system ? As I am scanning my old pictures I encountered that the best pictures I made, I made with my old mamiya 645 System, best not in the sense of sharpness alone, but the composition is much better than the pictures made with the Nikons. I also seem to have some problem with composition through a SLR viewfinder, even the Canon 5 D is for me not very pleasant to use. While the versatility of that camera is certainly great and much better than any medium format system (Birds with Tele lens or high iso in a pub - just came back from a trip to Ireland), it is the feeling of having fun while taking pictures I totally miss with a SLR. As I am planning to go to Santorin in Greek the Idea of walking around with my Canon 5D is not pleasing me too much. No action shots there but a lot of beatiful houses, villages and great scenery.
Thanks for your help!
The Contax 645 can be fitted with a mask and a waist level finder. It takes about every digital back made and is very versatile and well built.

A more expensive and less compatible Camera would be the Rollei 60008 AF. Doesn't take Leaf or Phase backs it think, but otherwise a great camera with great lenses. You can use with the waist level finder, a 45 or 90 degree prism.

Best of luck,

Kipling
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 08:15:54 AM »
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Looks nice, but a factor 1,5 with the lens means that I need special markings in the waist level finder and that the positive effect of a big finder is reduced quite a lot
?

That will be a problem on all cameras
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Geoffrey
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 08:19:18 AM »
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I agree, the keeper shgots are usally with a waist level finer - more thoughtfuland deliberate composition.

While the Hassy V is a good solution, there is also the Rollei system - with the Phase 1 db 20 back, or even via adapter Imacon.
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SeanBK
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 09:25:06 AM »
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Christian,
          Somewhere I read that you can take off the view finder & focus right on ground glass & then one can shoot H1/H2 as if they are waist level view finder system. Of course you will loose metering ability, but low ground level shots would be worth it. Call Hasselblad & see if they see any problem with that concept. Do let us know your findings.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 09:27:05 AM by SeanBK » Logged
mtomalty
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 09:35:50 AM »
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Over the past few days I have read a few,seemingly credible, threads discussing
what Hasselblad may,or may not,be showing at PhotoKina.

Among the items was an all but certainty that they will have a waist level finder for the
H2 (and,presumably,the H1).

Unfortunately,I don't have the link as the H2 is not of interest to me and I didn't bookmark
the 'info',such as it is,when I came across it.

There were also rumors of a 37 x 37 chip and a tilt/shift solution for H1/H2 users

Mark
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Fritzer
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 10:30:23 AM »
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To my knowledge, the only waist level finder options are the Mamiya RZ and the Fuji 680 with their rotating back holders, which also accept Phase and Leaf backs.

The Fuji might require a special adapter, the RZ seems to work without much modification.

Best,
Thomas
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pss
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2006, 11:41:27 AM »
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rollei 6008af digital bundle...16mpix P20...body, back, lens for 10,000-11,000....amazing solution, fully integrated system... WLF or optional prism....
or rollei 6008/emotion22 bundle 22mpix...for about 23,000....
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marcwilson
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2006, 11:51:44 AM »
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the contax waist level finder also gives you some metering options..which can be usefull at times.
the contax system also accept all digital backs.

as does the hasselblad v system as far as I know.

yu can simply mask off your wlf screen with black electrical tape..very easy to remove also.

If you never use autofocus etc then the v system is perhaps the better option..lighter, cheaper, etc than the contax but..and this is important..on the contax you do have the wide 45mm hartblei or zoerk shift options which you do not on the hasselblad (although they do make the pc mutar but there you lose the wides with the 1.4 factor)

As for the possible shift system as photokina for the h system..I do not see how good a shift /tilt system will be for the h cameras as the lenses may not have a large enough image circle to give any usefull movements..although this is less so with the smaller sized sensors in the digital backs.
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Marsupilami
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2006, 01:34:45 PM »
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Thanks for all that good advice, just read through some tech specs at imacon. For example the ixpress should also work with Mamiya 645pro, not only with mamiya AFD. And the older pro version do have a waist finder - and I am used to that camera as I owned that for quite a time. Any known drawbacks with this solution ? Also the newer back in the 20 MP area like the 132c have a sensor size of 37x49 mm, should be 1,14 factor, much better than with the hasselblad (esp. for wide angle use). to compare the mamiya ZD has 36x48 and a factor of 1,16.
Only question if the lenses of the old Mamiya 645 system are good enough for digital. Heard somewhere that they are, but hard to tell without trying.
Certainly the Contax sounds like the better bet.

Christian
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2006, 03:06:56 PM »
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Christian,

The Imacon Iexpress backs will work with the 645 Pro and so will the Megavision Back.

I miss the Pro waist level finder, too. My solution for those times when this old man can't get that low is to use the Angle Finder (Cat. #211-731) on my 645 AFD. It provides a full view even with my glasses on.
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Jack Varney
narikin
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2006, 07:37:38 AM »
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I have the Contax 645 with P45 and a waist level finder all the time.

the only issue is that since contax discontinued production, WLF's have been like gold dust and are now nearing $500 on EBay. they used to be around $100...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 10:46:28 AM by narikin » Logged
pss
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2006, 11:23:37 AM »
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one of the reasons why WLF are not really interesting for 645 (contax, mamiya, H1/2) is the simple fact that one can really only shoot horizontal...holding a camera sideways with a WLF is not really an option...the rollei 6008 system is af, can be fully automatic, has all ((multi/single spot, average, multizone) metering comes with a WLF, 45 prism or 90 prism (the meter is in the camera not he prisms) and accepts all imacon, sinar, eyelike/emotion and some phase backs....the backs rotate on the back just like filmbacks, so vertical/horizontal shooting is a matter of turning the back...there is no other system with these options/possibilities....the cameras accept pretty much all lenses ever made for the 6000 series (the older ones come with limited functionality...)....for simpler bodies (no af and less metering options), there are lots of options on ebay, where a 6008i with lens and back can be had for less then 1500...most of them accept all imacon, sinar and eyelike/emotion backs...
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Fritzer
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2006, 11:24:49 AM »
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Hmm, maybe I missed something, but the Contax/Mamiya 645 allow the use of a waist level finder only for shooting horizontal format, correct ?

I don't know about you guys, for me that covers about 10% of my work ....


Edit: Ouups, beaten by one miniute.  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 11:26:19 AM by Fritzer » Logged
Jack Varney
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2006, 11:38:27 AM »
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One of the benefits of the Mamiya Angle Finder attachment for the 645 AFD/AFD II/AF is that it will rotate, thus allowing the camera to be rotated for a portrait/vertical orientation.
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2006, 12:19:42 PM »
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One of the benefits of the Mamiya Angle Finder attachment for the 645 AFD/AFD II/AF is that it will rotate, thus allowing the camera to be rotated for a portrait/vertical orientation.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75311\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
what is the difference between a "angle finder attachement" and a prism? any rotating prism on a 645 would allow one to shoot looking down at the image, but i would not consider that a WLF, because you would still have to rotate the camera...and in case of a finder attachement the camera would have to be rotated and the would be 2 prisms to look through?...the whole point of the WLF is the bright image...
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rethmeier
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2006, 04:13:33 PM »
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I have the Contax 645 with P45 and a waist level finder all the time.

the only issue is that since contax discontinued production, WLF's have been like gold dust and are now nearing $500 on EBay. they used to be around $100...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75295\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One went for $800 USD the other day on eBay!
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Willem Rethmeier
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2006, 03:37:35 PM »
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what is the difference between a "angle finder attachement" and a prism? any rotating prism on a 645 would allow one to shoot looking down at the image, but i would not consider that a WLF, because you would still have to rotate the camera...and in case of a finder attachement the camera would have to be rotated and the would be 2 prisms to look through?...the whole point of the WLF is the bright image...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The angle finder is an attachment to the 645 AFD prism. You must rotate the camera to change the format but the angle finder rotates so that you are still looking down into it. See it here -

[a href=\"http://www.mamiya.com/products2.asp?id=1&id2=2152&id3=2172&id4=2179&id5=2180]http://www.mamiya.com/products2.asp?id=1&i...4=2179&id5=2180[/url]
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Jack Varney
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