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Author Topic: Mamiya ZD back at Photokina?  (Read 5680 times)
aaron
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« on: September 07, 2006, 06:20:08 AM »
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Mamiya's german website has some info regarding the 'debut' of the ZD back at Photokina, my german is not up to scratch but it looks promising- or am i missing something?
Link:
http://www.mamiya.de/index.html
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free1000
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2006, 10:20:46 AM »
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Mamiya's german website has some info regarding the 'debut' of the ZD back at Photokina, my german is not up to scratch but it looks promising- or am i missing something?
Link:
http://www.mamiya.de/index.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75774\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wouldnt read anything into this... the same site lists the AFDII as "Neu" which I hardly think it is. Looks as if the content is rather out of date.
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Ed Jack
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2006, 10:23:21 AM »
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Mamiya's german website has some info regarding the 'debut' of the ZD back at Photokina, my german is not up to scratch but it looks promising- or am i missing something?
Link:
http://www.mamiya.de/index.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75774\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 About time too.
As an H1 user it only interests me if they bring it out multi-platform. I don't see why they shouldn't do this, as Mamiya 645 users will buy Mamiya645 cameras, Hasselblad users will stretch their pockets for  H1 Kit (and a ZD back if availalbe). So I don't see how "protecting their brand" helps them here, as opposed to shifting the ZD back to many more customers - maybe increasing sales 3 times.  Plenty of people with digital backs already, might even fork out for a back up in the ZD ? Why not even make it compatible with the Hasselblad V serries cameras how many latent digital back potential buys must be working away with these (presently still on film , but keeping an eye on an "afordable digital solution") ?

Ed
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 10:50:46 AM »
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My German is up to scratch and I couldn't find anything stating thet the ZD back would be presented at Photokina. Where was it that you thought you read something to that extent?

Under the Photokina logo it just says "Visit us at Photokina world imaging Köln on the 26th of sept., etc.

When you click on the Mamiya ZD Debut pic you just get old news and specs.

Sorry to disapoint ayone.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 10:51:20 AM by kipling » Logged
aaron
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 11:27:21 AM »
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Quote from: kipling,Sep 7 2006, 03:50 PM
My German is up to scratch and I couldn't find anything stating thet the ZD back would be presented at Photokina. Where was it that you thought you read something to that extent?

--------------------------------

Hi Kipling, thanks for the info. I assumed that if Mamiya put up a page with an advert promotimg the debut of the ZD back and beside it, it says "visit us at Photokina", it actually means that the ZD back would be present,  otherwise they are really going out of their way to throw egg on their own faces.
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pss
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2006, 11:43:34 AM »
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under the ZD it says: "now available in stores"
under the back it does not say anything...
i guess they will finally come out with the ZD Back? or will it be a re-announcement?
i was hoping for the ZD II...i wonder what they will charge for a 3? year old 12bit back/camera....
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mcfoto
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2006, 06:21:34 PM »
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Hi
To me it looks like they will relase the ZD back. Price wise I think it should be about $8000.00 USD. I still think Mamiya has to do a deal with Leaf or Phase. The question is will the MAC group release the ZD in the US? The MAC group just sold 250 Aptus 22 digital backs to the Hallmark photography school. The students use the Mamiya 645 AFDII camera.

http://www.leafamerica.com/press/Leaf_Hallmark_PR.pdf.
 
Thanks Denis
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Graham Welland
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 12:54:07 AM »
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Hi
To me it looks like they will relase the ZD back. Price wise I think it should be about $8000.00 USD. I still think Mamiya has to do a deal with Leaf or Phase. The question is will the MAC group release the ZD in the US? The MAC group just sold 250 Aptus 22 digital backs to the Hallmark photography school. The students use the Mamiya 645 AFDII camera.

http://www.leafamerica.com/press/Leaf_Hallmark_PR.pdf.
 
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75818\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have printed flyers and colour brochures from Mamiya with the ZD and ZD back both prominently described and displayed. That would suggest the level of marketing $$ comitted is significant to the ZD back, beyond just discussions and easily forgettable web site content.

It would be another MAJOR faux pas by Mamiya to not release the back at some point!
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2006, 03:12:02 AM »
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Quote from: aaron,Sep 7 2006, 05:27 PM
Quote from: kipling,Sep 7 2006, 03:50 PM
My German is up to scratch and I couldn't find anything stating thet the ZD back would be presented at Photokina. Where was it that you thought you read something to that extent?

--------------------------------

Hi Kipling, thanks for the info. I assumed that if Mamiya put up a page with an advert promotimg the debut of the ZD back and beside it, it says "visit us at Photokina", it actually means that the ZD back would be present,  otherwise they are really going out of their way to throw egg on their own faces.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75796\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It wouldn't be the first time a camera company made a marketing mistake in the digital realm.
Strangely enough, there's that one word "Debut" on the page. That's it though - mabye this is the Mamiya way of doing a teaser campaign.

Whatever they've got planned, a brilliant marketing plan doesn't seem to be part of it.
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nicolaasdb
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2006, 05:00:42 PM »
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I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough

I however think that because M.A.C. who imports Mamiya, Leaf and profoto...feels that if they market the ZD here as well as Leaf they might have conflicting interest!! Like selling Mercedes and BMW in the same dealership!!
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aaron
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2006, 05:26:21 PM »
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I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough

I however think that because M.A.C. who imports Mamiya, Leaf and profoto...feels that if they market the ZD here as well as Leaf they might have conflicting interest!! Like selling Mercedes and BMW in the same dealership!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well surely if this Leaf Rep believes that the ZD is so inferior to their product then they wouldn't pressurise MAC not to distribute it, obviously anyone who actually got the opportunity to test this poor quality offering from Mamiya would instantly run to the far superior Leaf option regardless of the fact that they will be paying over twice the price for it.  
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eronald
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2006, 01:41:25 AM »
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A Paris dealer called "Le Moyen Format" (The Medium Format) are holding a blowout midnight event for 25 (!) ZD bodies.

I would be very surprised if Mamiya sold more than 50 ZDs per year in France. It would seem that MF system sales are really slow, which is understandable given the price range these days ...There must be about 10 dealers and I don't think they are selling more than one or two units a months of the heavy stuff (H2 or Phase) to individuals. I expect the rental outlets are being served directly by the manufacturers with agressive discounts.

http://www.legrandformat.com/Neuf/MFnu.htm

I think the ZDII is coming

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 01:46:48 AM by eronald » Logged

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Quentin
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2006, 12:18:10 PM »
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I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough

Then they are either being disingenuous or stupid.   The more I use the ZD, the better it gets.   Anyone who thinks the image quality is not good enough simply has not got a clue.

Quentin
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2006, 02:00:12 AM »
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  Anyone who thinks the image quality is not good enough simply has not got a clue.

Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75989\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quentin, every tried to do a long time exposure @ ISO400?

I got very interesting results, sadly they had nothing to do with photography.....
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mcfoto
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2006, 06:01:38 AM »
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Quote from: nicolaasdb,Sep 9 2006, 05:00 PM
I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough

I use both the ZD and Aptus 22 and really like both of them. The Aptus 22 is better but we have to put things in reality like money. The Aptus 22 ($25000) and the ZD ($11000). The Aptus has better software (MAC) than the ZD ( MAC & PC). I have compared the Aptus vrs the ZD ( RAW processed file) at iso 50, result Aptus slightly better. The beauty is that they are a very similar file ( same Dalsa chip ). I could drag on here but........ the price of the ZD is $14000.00 less! Anyone watch TOP GEAR that great car show, when they compare cars( that is what this is like). On editorial shoots I have learned to deal with the buffer with the ZD and the screen issue is not really an issue for me. Having used other digital cameras and backs.For example the ZD blows the Kodax 645 DPS out of the water period!!

Thanks Denis
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Quentin
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2006, 06:41:50 AM »
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Quentin, every tried to do a long time exposure @ ISO400?

I got very interesting results, sadly they had nothing to do with photography.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76036\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmm, can't think why I'd want to do that.  400ISO normal exposure times is useable if you don't underexpose and run a noise reduction programme.  Emergency use only though, and not what 99% of users would use a ZD for.  Mamiya should do what Kodak did so successfully with the SLR/n and run a "longer mode" with dark slide subtraction (or whatever its called) for almost zero noise with timed exposures - easly eachivable with a firmware update.

Quentin
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2006, 06:57:51 AM »
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I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough

I use both the ZD and Aptus 22 and really like both of them. The Aptus 22 is better but we have to put things in reality like money. The Aptus 22 ($25000) and the ZD ($11000). The Aptus has better software (MAC) than the ZD ( MAC & PC). I have compared the Aptus vrs the ZD ( RAW processed file) at iso 50, result Aptus slightly better. The beauty is that they are a very similar file ( same Dalsa chip ). I could drag on here but........ the price of the ZD is $14000.00 less! Anyone watch TOP GEAR that great car show, when they compare cars( that is what this is like). On editorial shoots I have learned to deal with the buffer with the ZD and the screen issue is not really an issue for me. Having used other digital cameras and backs.For example the ZD blows the Kodax 645 DPS out of the water period!!

Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Image quality has a lot to do with how a manufacturer sets up their camera and the software (firmware and raw file decoding software) that runs it.  A good example of that is the Kodak dslrs, and not just the last flawed models.  

Kodak designed their cameras so they underexposed by up to 2 stops; they made a big play on how highlight detail could be recovered in Photodesk - great news for wedding pros.  It all worked well enough, but it created the impression of a noisy camera, because "normal" exposures were in fact underexposed leading to shadow noise.  Once you uderstood this and compensated for it (seriously exposing to the right), the noise problem was greatly reduced or eliminated (I recall there is a report on the Kodak SLR/n or 14n chip noise characterisitcs on this site somewhere that shows the chip is not inherently noisy).

Mamiya are relative newcomers to digital imaging and I think this shows in the software.  Kodak greatly improved the performance of their dslrs through their life, and while the ZD is already very good at low ISO, I wonder if similar improvements could be made.  SilkyPix is already way better that PhotoStudio at decoding raw files, if you tweak the settings.

Quentin
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 06:58:28 AM by Quentin » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2006, 02:27:58 PM »
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Quote from: mcfoto,Sep 11 2006, 07:01 AM
Quote from: nicolaasdb,Sep 9 2006, 05:00 PM
I had a Aptus 75 demo Yesterday and the leaf rep told me that the ZD will not be important because M.A.C who imports Mamiya in the States feel that the ZD is not ready...too slow and image quality isn't good enough
On editorial shoots I have learned to deal with the buffer with the ZD and the screen issue is not really an issue for me. Having used other digital cameras and backs.For example the ZD blows the Kodax 645 DPS out of the water period!!

Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the feedback on this new camera guys. For those of you who have used it:
A. Just how SLOW is the buffer? When shooting to a card? How about tethered?

B. Also, just how bad is that LCD??

Thanks.
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mcfoto
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2006, 05:42:35 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback on this new camera guys. For those of you who have used it:
A. Just how SLOW is the buffer? When shooting to a card? How about tethered?

B. Also, just how bad is that LCD??

Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When shooting RAW quickly at 1.2 frames/sec the buffer fills up after 11 shots either with the card or tethered. I have just shot a portrait for a magazine and never reached the buffer on 56 shots ( 2 gig card ). If you direct the person and shoot a few frames then redirect you will not fill the buffer same goes for landscape which I use this camera for.
   My screen is contrasty but I have shot outside in thr bright sun ( the sun is bright in Sydney Australia) and could see the images. I mean you have to shade it. The screen works and I attached a Delkin e film viewer on the screen, they are great. I find the battery life at around 300 shots and you carry a spare with you. They are easy to replace, I wish the AFD body had an adaptor for this battery much faster than AA's to replace.
  I also have a 5D to.
Thanks Denis
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