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Author Topic: When is the Epson Pro 3800 going to be released?  (Read 15618 times)
BradH
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« on: September 15, 2006, 02:44:59 PM »
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I thought it was going to be announced today.  Anyone heard any dates for availability?


http://www.pcsuperdeals.com/ProductView.as...819a7b&Refer=11


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danamr
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2006, 03:17:07 PM »
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I thought it was going to be announced today.  Anyone heard any dates for availability?
http://www.pcsuperdeals.com/ProductView.as...819a7b&Refer=11
http://www.sparco.com/cgi-bin/wfind2?spn=W19460
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The what?
I believe you are about 10 days early.
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RonBoyd
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 07:07:42 PM »
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This is what Epson sent to me:

On September 27, we'll unveil our newest professional printer. We want to tell you
about a new printer that's going to get your adrenaline pumping, your heart racing
and your imagination soaring.

For starters, it looks cool. It's sleek, slim, stylish and space efficient. Think high-end sports car.

But, it's what's inside that will really raise your pulse rate. This engineering
marvel incorporates several radical new technologies. And, of course, it takes
full advantage of our already industry-renowned Epson UltraChrome K3™ inks.

We've saved the best for last. Wait till you see the price. We think you'll be not
just pleased, but amazed.

So mark your calendar. Set a reminder in your PDA. And, put a note on your
computer monitor — SEPTEMBER 27 — it's the official release date of what
promises to be a huge new leap forward in professional printing.

This is going to be exciting.
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BradH
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 08:22:38 PM »
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Hopefully that will be the actual release date like they say and not an anouncement that it will be available in late November or something.
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lthown
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 12:50:48 PM »
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will it really be the 3800? http://www.inkjetartcom/3800/
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 03:11:29 PM »
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Who cares what its called?
 
Just gimme a printer with K3 inks *and* the gloss optimiser and I'll be online to buy one asap.

However it wouldnt be too surprising to see a renewal of the 3000 series printers, which were A2 printers.
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 08:26:03 PM »
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Epson's 800 series printers wit the K3 inks are pretty good. I am yet to be convinced the HP and Canon inks are any better. HP  and Canon do have some definite advantages. What Epson must do in order for many of us to upgrade, is to include both matte and gloss black inks (as in the 4000), fix the nozzle blocking problems ( as HP seem to have done), come up with a better matteblack ink- or introduce a 4th, deeper black . It would be nice too to be able to use the ink we pay for. I recently hacksawed open an "empty " 220 ml cartridge of LLK to do some spotting with , and poured out 40 ml of ink.
Let's see if Sep 27 delivers more than spin..
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 09:09:23 PM »
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As it appears that Kirby Pucket has risen from the grave, signed for and absconed with my B9180 I might end up looking at this printer.

But the problem I have with Epson is that if I buy one and it clogs I'll smash it into a thousand pieces.  They at least need to pay lip service to the clogging issue.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 09:35:09 PM »
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Brian,

I am disturbed to learn that an "empty" cartridge contains 40ml of ink. I was always under the impression (perhaps erroneous) that when they sell you a 220ml cartridge they mean that you will get 220ml of usefulness out of it regardless of how much they purposely leave in the cartridge when their firmware tells you it is "empty". They do leave some ink behind for technical reasons that they have explained. But if in fact we only get say 180 ml of printing from it, I need to increase the price per ml in my costing model accordingly. I shall contact Epson America and ask this question - it will be interesting to see whether I get an answer, and if so, what.

Dark Penguin and Brian,

What you think is clogging may not actually be clogging. It is more likely absence of ink from the lines because of air bubbles or the ink dropping back from the print head; then you engage cleaning cycles to force ink through the lines to the head. The impact of course is the same: wasted ink - and lots of it. There is no doubt in my mind that Epson is very well aware of this problem even though they say little or nothing about it. There is also precious little information about the causes. The problem is we won't really know whether they have licked it until people buy the new model and use it for quite a few months. It will be another experiment.

Unless Epson has changed its ways, I'm not holding my breath about availability. They do have a track record of creating hype, then announcing an announcement date, then making the announcement about the availability date some time down the road, then sometime after the announced date providing a very small number of machines relative to the pent-up demand they have created, frustrating large numbers of customers, then finally gearing-up enough manufacturing to meet demand promptly - all of this cycle consuming many months of teeth-gnashing and finger-pounding on computer keyboards. Let us all relax, sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
David White
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2006, 10:30:49 AM »
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What are the odds that this may be a 17" B&W printer?  The numbering scheme doesn't fit with the current printers and looking at the 3000, an upgrade to a B&W with both blacks and a couple grays could be an alternative.

Just an idle speculation.
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David White
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 11:16:05 AM »
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I am disturbed to learn that an "empty" cartridge contains 40ml of ink. I was always under the impression (perhaps erroneous) that when they sell you a 220ml cartridge they mean that you will get 220ml of usefulness out of it regardless of how much they purposely leave in the cartridge when their firmware tells you it is "empty".

This would be an interesting study - on how much usable ink on paper one actually gets from a cartridge.   I don't think you can assume you only get 180 ml usefulness unless you actually track the ink-per-print for the life of that cartridge.  Then you can see if it adds up close to 220, or if it is 260 or 180.   Then of course there is all the ink that ends up in the waste tank as well!

Mark
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 12:20:51 PM »
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This would be an interesting study - on how much usable ink on paper one actually gets from a cartridge.   I don't think you can assume you only get 180 ml usefulness unless you actually track the ink-per-print for the life of that cartridge.  Then you can see if it adds up close to 220, or if it is 260 or 180.   Then of course there is all the ink that ends up in the waste tank as well!

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77071\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unfortunately, I think you are correct about this. I say *unfortunately* because just now I don't know whether one can access data in the firmware that shows session by session how many ml are actually evacuated *on prints* from each cartridge before it is declared *empty*. This is one aspect that I would like to clarify with Epson if I can. I can tell from nozzle checks how much total ink is used between each nozzle check, but that does not tabulate this consumption on a per cartridge basis.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 04:43:20 PM »
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The 40 ml I had left in a 220ml cartridge would be insufficient evidence from a statistical point of view to mount a claim of any sort on. I have though, hacked open other cartridges and found quite a lot of ink , but haven't measured it. I will do so in future and suggest others on this forum might like to do the same. We could then come up with something useful. The 7800/9800 cartridges are pressurised and one wold expect them to deliver most of the ink and more than the non-pressurised 4800. We need figures for both.
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2006, 05:00:00 PM »
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Brian, it would seem to me that if someone is curious enough to throw away 100 dollars (US) the thing to do would be to pry open a NEW 220 and empty the ink into a measuring cup to see how much is there. Then when the next few cartridges show empty in the Epson status monitor open them and measure how much residual ink there is. If after doing this with several *empty* cartridges the amount of residual shows small enough variance, it would be good enough to subtract the average residual of these *empty* carts from the measured amount of the wasted full cartridge, the difference being the usable quantity. Any takers?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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CRDubeau
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2006, 11:28:04 PM »
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Another possibility to finding out how much ink is used from a cartridge (which is almost free) would be to do some differential weighing.  Only assumption would be that the density of ink is close to 1, this would allow the extrapolation of the mass back to volumes.  For an approximation the mass of an empty cartridge could be compared the mass of a full cartridge; the difference should be pretty close the mL of ink used.  To get a more precise measurement the cartridge could be weighed just before going into the printer and compared to the mass once that cartridge is empty according to the printer.  No need to waste a new cartridge. All you need is a 2-3 decimal place scientific scale. I have been tempted to do this and see how much ink I get with the R800 cartridges. To improve the calculation the left over ink in a cartridge could be used to do the density calculations ... that would be a little more involved though. Another possibility for the 4800 is you can find out how much ink has been used in mL during a certain print, get a starting mass and final mass and you can then relate mass to volume.  Let’s hope the density of each colour is consistent  . Just a thought, to save more needless waste of ink.
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tbonanno
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2006, 10:35:02 PM »
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For what its worth Mark, with two months of usage, I have not had one nozzle problem with the iPF5000.  I've only replaced one cartridge so far ... the GREY, but when I replaced it and shook it, it really did appear to be EMPTY.. how refreshing compared to my Epson 110 cartridges from the 4000 that always sounded like a half full aquarium when shaking the "empty" cartridge.

Quote
Brian,

I am disturbed to learn that an "empty" cartridge contains 40ml of ink. I was always under the impression (perhaps erroneous) that when they sell you a 220ml cartridge they mean that you will get 220ml of usefulness out of it regardless of how much they purposely leave in the cartridge when their firmware tells you it is "empty". They do leave some ink behind for technical reasons that they have explained. But if in fact we only get say 180 ml of printing from it, I need to increase the price per ml in my costing model accordingly. I shall contact Epson America and ask this question - it will be interesting to see whether I get an answer, and if so, what.

Dark Penguin and Brian,

What you think is clogging may not actually be clogging. It is more likely absence of ink from the lines because of air bubbles or the ink dropping back from the print head; then you engage cleaning cycles to force ink through the lines to the head. The impact of course is the same: wasted ink - and lots of it. There is no doubt in my mind that Epson is very well aware of this problem even though they say little or nothing about it. There is also precious little information about the causes. The problem is we won't really know whether they have licked it until people buy the new model and use it for quite a few months. It will be another experiment.

Unless Epson has changed its ways, I'm not holding my breath about availability. They do have a track record of creating hype, then announcing an announcement date, then making the announcement about the availability date some time down the road, then sometime after the announced date providing a very small number of machines relative to the pent-up demand they have created, frustrating large numbers of customers, then finally gearing-up enough manufacturing to meet demand promptly - all of this cycle consuming many months of teeth-gnashing and finger-pounding on computer keyboards. Let us all relax, sit back and enjoy the ride.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77015\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Tony Bonanno Photography
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John Camp
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2006, 11:41:16 PM »
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Another possibility to finding out how much ink is used from a cartridge (which is almost free) would be to do some differential weighing.  <snip> [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77128\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

An interesting concept. You could weigh a full cartridge, use it, then weigh it with the residue, then crack the cartridge, pour the residue into a test tube, measure it and weigh it, dump the ink, refill the test tube with water to the same level, measure and weigh, to figure the density; then wash out the cartridge, allow to dry, and weigh it. A little subtraction and voila. This strikes me as something that any undergrad chemistry lab could do, and it'd be a service.

JC
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2006, 07:00:00 AM »
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Tony, that's good to hear. I know from at least one other user as well that the IPF5000 does not require these repeated and intensive cleaning cycles to keep the ink lines full and the nozzles unclogged. Experience on the Epson 4800 is more mixed. Two people I know who use them - not even regularly - have no problems either, whereas with my 4800 at first I had very little difficulty, then episodes of major cleaning cycles developed, the machine was serviced, and since then is not clogging or dropping ink.

Last night I pryed open an "empty" Epson 220 cartridge. The contents is a plastic bag that holds the ink. There is a small amount of residual ink in it, which Epson does on purpose to prevent air being pumped into the printhead. The question is whether this residual is included or not in the 220 ml. I shall be measuring the amount of the residual today when I have a chance, but that won't answer the question. John Camp's suggestion is technically correct - just needs the tools to do it. Another approach is to ask Epson, which I also intend to do.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2006, 12:40:45 PM »
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For what its worth Mark, with two months of usage, I have not had one nozzle problem with the iPF5000.  I've only replaced one cartridge so far ... the GREY, but when I replaced it and shook it, it really did appear to be EMPTY.. how refreshing compared to my Epson 110 cartridges from the 4000 that always sounded like a half full aquarium when shaking the "empty" cartridge.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77215\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, but every time I turn the iPF5000 on, and at other times at random, it goes through some extensive "head" cleaning excercise.  So maybe they don't clog, but you may be using just as much ink keeping the heads clear as the epson.

Not saying that's so ... but what is the printer doing for several minutes making all those noises that sound like a head cleaning?
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2006, 01:45:37 PM »
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Yes, but every time I turn the iPF5000 on, and at other times at random, it goes through some extensive "head" cleaning excercise.  So maybe they don't clog, but you may be using just as much ink keeping the heads clear as the epson.

Not saying that's so ... but what is the printer doing for several minutes making all those noises that sound like a head cleaning?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's cleaning, but probably using little ink.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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