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Author Topic: Zeiss - bad attitude to digital?  (Read 7996 times)
narikin
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« on: September 23, 2006, 10:10:14 AM »
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Zeiss has a very worrying attitude towards digital photography that is going to be disastrous for their company if they dont change paths soon.

If you read any of their press releases or interviews, they betray an alarming head-in-the-sand approach to the digital challenge, putting their energy into mis-placed product lines and a general hostility towards digital image making, for example: http://keppler.popphoto.com/blog/2006/09/s...ing_frankl.html

** Their new Zeiss Ikon line is a waste of energy towards retro enthusiast RF film market (very small). what planet are they on spending valuable R&D on this stuff?

** The recent 35mm lenses do not have a Canon fitting (a complete disaster as Canon OWN the dslr market)

** The one set of lenses they do make for pro MF digital is dedicated to Sinar M series, and at a cost so crazy ($10000 for a 40mm wide angle?) that its pointless.

I'm a long term fan of Zeiss' lenses,  and believe firmly in their design and quality control, BUT they are messing things up royally here, and we are all the worse of for it.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2006, 01:39:48 PM »
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There's a lot of truth in that They keep going for tiny niches. I think they are still producing lenses for Hass V and Rollei 600x though, aren't they?
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pixjohn
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2006, 02:00:05 PM »
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I agree about the lenses Zeiss is producing, but have you ever thought maybe Zeiss does not have the legal right to use the Canon mount

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** The recent 35mm lenses do not have a Canon fitting (a complete disaster as Canon OWN the dslr market)
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T-1000
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2006, 04:46:59 PM »
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That's right.

Zeiss has said that if they were allowed to make lenses in the Canon mount, they would.  

Ironically, the ZF lenses are better suited on a Canon DSLR with a Nikon - EOS adapter.  This is because many Canon users are already using Leica and Zeiss/Contax/Yashica manual focus lenses on their cameras, and I don't think manual focus lenses are very attractive to Nikon users who have the latest AF/DX Nikon lenses.  Nikon does not have any full-frame DSLRs that may show bad performance in the corners of the frame with their own system of lenses, etc.
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pss
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 05:20:19 PM »
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There's a lot of truth in that They keep going for tiny niches. I think they are still producing lenses for Hass V and Rollei 600x though, aren't they?
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according to the latest releases, the new lenses for rollei will be jenoptik designs...so no more zeiss for rollei either and i don't think anyone is still making lenses for hass V....
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tom_l
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 04:39:23 AM »
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according to the latest releases, the new lenses for rollei will be jenoptik designs...so no more zeiss for rollei either and i don't think anyone is still making lenses for hass V....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77436\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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according to the latest releases, the new lenses for rollei will be jenoptik designs...so no more zeiss for rollei either and i don't think anyone is still making lenses for hass V....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77436\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Every two years, a few weeks before the photokina I begin to worry about the future of the V-series. Evereytime rumors say that the end of the production is near, every time Hasselblad claims they will continue the existing  production line.

Maybe Zeiss know that finally the end of V-series is near,and the "rumored" new hasselblad body will probably not use their lenses, they are forced to bring out the own "classic" silver lenses. If their cheaper than the current last CFE lenses, there might be a niche market. On the other hand, who buys these things new? I bought all my V-lenses used, often in mind condition, for 1/3 of the original price. My 20 year old 60mm is still doing great with my P25.

tom-
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Rob C
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 05:22:54 AM »
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Every two years, a few weeks before the photokina I begin to worry about the future of the V-series. Evereytime rumors say that the end of the production is near, every time Hasselblad claims they will continue the existing  production line.

Maybe Zeiss know that finally the end of V-series is near,and the "rumored" new hasselblad body will probably not use their lenses, they are forced to bring out the own "classic" silver lenses. If their cheaper than the current last CFE lenses, there might be a niche market. On the other hand, who buys these things new? I bought all my V-lenses used, often in mind condition, for 1/3 of the original price. My 20 year old 60mm is still doing great with my P25.

tom-
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey narikin - I was very surprised to learn that Canon owns the DSLR market; I wonder where the hell I found my Nikon DSLR - wasn't I lucky!

But seriously, there are always problems when established companies are faced with a radical change in product requirements and the digital take-up has surprised many. It has ruined many too, often to the loss of the photographer now denied access to wonderful systems that might not have been digital but were workhorses to many active and successful photography workers. The sad party of it, apart from the massive inconvenience in terms of both effed up existing camera systems one might own and the cost of replacements, the tide is and has always been amateur motivated. No manufacturer would have been able to invest in the R'n'D required if he were selling exclusively to the pro market - you have but to consider Leica if you want an illustration. And what sort of future does this portend, when taste and, worse, expectations  are forever declining in almost every sphere of life, from photography, music and fashion to make but a start to a depressing list?

Sad times indeed.

Ciao - Rob C
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2006, 06:32:55 AM »
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Zeiss has said that if they were allowed to make lenses in the Canon mount, they would.

I've heard the same thing elsewhere, but I'm still puzzled.

How can independent lens manufacturers make lenses in the Canon mount? Perhaps they're licensed by Canon but Zeiss is unwilling to pay the license fee. However, if an independent lens manufacturer has bought a license then I'd expect it to include firmware details, so if it's licensed why are there so many operational conflicts between third party lenses and Canon?

And if it is a license barrier, what's to prevent Zeiss simply offering their lenses in say a M42 screw mount with a Zeiss designed and manufactured M42/Canon adapter, Ebay is full of adapters so why can't Zeiss join the party that way?
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marcwilson
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2006, 01:04:06 PM »
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That is what the zeiss zs version of the lenses are..M42 screw mount...to use with widely available M42 adapters on the canon dslr.
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2006, 03:07:39 PM »
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Marc, I take your point regarding the M42, but as far as I can see Zeiss don't promote this as the Canon solution, and I don't believe they manufacture a suitable adapter.

I've twice used adapters. One worked beautifully but one degraded the image. I'd appreciate the reasssurance of a lens/adapter combination from the same manufacturer, so that if there was any problems I could return the whole package rather than have each manufacturer blame the other!

Incidentally, I was disappointed to see that the latest batch of Zeiss lenses had only the 25mm in the "ultra-wide" category. I tried a Contax 25mm (the same lens design) on a Canon via an adapter, and the results were no better than from the Canon 24mm T&S or the Canon 24-105mm 4.0L zoom. If they'd have offered the Contax 21mm or produced some new fixed focal length designs in the 18-28mm range then I'd have been very interested. Hopefully these are to follow.
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T-1000
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2006, 09:35:17 PM »
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Indeed, the M42 mount is NOT the Canon solution, and I would stay away from the new 25mm, because the Contax version was pretty bad.  But you never know...

Also, the ZF Nikon mount lenses will hold their value compared to the M42 mount lenses if you decide to sell them in the future.
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mcfoto
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 05:21:06 AM »
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** The one set of lenses they do make for pro MF digital is dedicated to Sinar M series, and at a cost so crazy ($10000 for a 40mm wide angle?) that its pointless.

Hi
The biggest mistake they made with the Sinar M is that it only accepts Sinar backs. This camera should accept Leaf, Phase etc!!!!
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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marcwilson
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 10:51:51 AM »
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Gary,
I agree..it would be good to be able to buy lens and adpater from the same source for all the reasons you mentioned.
Zeiss themselves said they would be leaving adapter manufacture up to others.
I think, but I may be wrong, that the m42 adapters are quite an old product and made by novoflex etc and so are possibly more likely to be without the many problems some have with the other adpates for zeiss / lecia / nikon on canon bodies such as infinity focus problems etc...although I may be off the mark here.

Time, and testing, will tell.

Marc
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