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Author Topic: I played with the new Rollei  (Read 10686 times)
eronald
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« on: September 25, 2006, 12:05:44 PM »
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Your special correspondent from Photokina says:

There's a Sinar-branded version and a Rollei-branded version.

It's 6x6.

It takes Rollei 6008 lenses, new finders. There's no prism finder so far, but a mirror eye-level finder.

*For now* , this camera only accepts one digital back, the one from Sinar, which can be mounted either in portrait or in landscape orientations.

 I have also been told that the price of the body should be in line with the 6008, which is very nice to hear.

I have also seen a multishot Sinar 75 back, and a very interesting gadget, an LCD shutter that allows the Sinar back to do live preview at working aperture.

Edmund
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 12:12:20 PM »
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are you talking about the Sinar Hy6?

Sinar Hy6
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william
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006, 12:42:38 PM »
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Edmund,

VERY interesting, thanks!  I'm sure there will be a prism finder at some point.

Questions: (1) Does the camera seem to be made to hold equally easily in the vertical and horizontal orientations?  Teh Rollei 6008 definitely is NOT made to be turned on its side.  I heard what you said about he backs on the new camera being able to rotate, but it'd be good to know if just turning the whole camera while shooting is feasible.

(2) I'm not lovin' the fact that it's only compatible with the Sinar eMotion back.  Sicne you said it will only accept Sinar backs "for now", I assume there was some indication that this might change in the future?

(3) Good to hear that the pricing will be in line with the 6008 (which ain't cheap, but isn't crazy expensive).  Any indications as to "bundle" pricing with the eMotion backs?

(4) Any indication as to actual availability to the masses of the new camera?



Quote
Your special correspondent from Photokina says:

There's a Sinar-branded version and a Rollei-branded version.

It's 6x6.

It takes Rollei 6008 lenses, new finders. There's no prism finder so far, but a mirror eye-level finder.

*For now* , this camera only accepts one digital back, the one from Sinar, which can be mounted either in portrait or in landscape orientations.

 I have also been told that the price of the body should be in line with the 6008, which is very nice to hear.

I have also seen a multishot Sinar 75 back, and a very interesting gadget, an LCD shutter that allows the Sinar back to do live preview at working aperture.

Edmund
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izaack
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 12:48:49 PM »
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Is it 'one from Sinar' or 'ones from Sinar'? I find it hard to stomach that it accepts only the one new Sinar evolution 75H back which is shown mounted to the Hy6.

I suppose it takes the new Rollei Jenoptik lenses too. Funny that it is cuboid...like the Hasselblad 500 series or the Rollei SL66. In fact, it kinda reminds of the Rollei SL66 or what it would have looked like today if they had continued developing it. Would the Rollei version be delivered in black livery, no?

Just as Hasselblad is abandoning the 6x6 format for the 645, F&H and Sinar are deciding to keep it. This makes them the only 6x6 player left who is loyal to the square. Who would have known? And whom would be proved right in reading the wants of the market?

There are pros and cons to both formats. On a tripod, it is easier to rotate a back than the entire camera, not to mention more stable too and in-line with the lens axis. This one goes to the 6x6. Handheld, it may be easier to turn the entire camera on its side than to fiddle with rotating the back especially if you are one who flips the camera from horizontal to vertical, back and forth spontaneously. This one goes to the 645. Me? I belong to the latter category who shoots it like a Canon DSLR. I require a bright and large 90-degree prism and a grip which allows me to hold it comfortably in either orientation. I don't rotate the back; I rotate the camera.

The problem with Sinar and Rollei is that they have never been very well marketed in the USA or in the EU for that matter. And if America does not buy it, then it is very likely that the rest of the world won't.

Leica-Sinar/F&H-Rollei have partnered with Jenoptik, Hasselblad with Imacon, Mamiya with Leaf (tenuously). Where does that leave Phase One? It looks increasingly certain that these companies plan to offer integrated solutions that will lock out backs from the other players.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 12:52:39 PM by izaack » Logged
damien
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 02:42:02 PM »
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I heard in May that Phase One were in talks with Contax. Does anyone know what the outcome of those talks were?

Damien.
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eronald
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 04:02:35 PM »
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1. I don't really thinks the body is made to be turned. It's a bit like the H1. But then, what do I know ?

2.  Yes, as a writer I am careful with words.

3. I asked and asked Sinar, they wouldn't say anything. But with the body being sold also under a Sinar label, one can expect a bundle.

4. April 07, which seems feasible as the prototypes are functional, the backs exist, the old 6008 was digital compatible, and the president of the company himself told me that date, and he seems to be German which increases his credibility  I woudl bet on autumn for first production samples.


Edmund

Quote
Edmund,

VERY interesting, thanks!  I'm sure there will be a prism finder at some point.

Questions: (1) Does the camera seem to be made to hold equally easily in the vertical and horizontal orientations?  Teh Rollei 6008 definitely is NOT made to be turned on its side.  I heard what you said about he backs on the new camera being able to rotate, but it'd be good to know if just turning the whole camera while shooting is feasible.

(2) I'm not lovin' the fact that it's only compatible with the Sinar eMotion back.  Sicne you said it will only accept Sinar backs "for now", I assume there was some indication that this might change in the future?

(3) Good to hear that the pricing will be in line with the 6008 (which ain't cheap, but isn't crazy expensive).  Any indications as to "bundle" pricing with the eMotion backs?

(4) Any indication as to actual availability to the masses of the new camera?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 04:09:17 PM »
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Handheld, it may be easier to turn the entire camera on its side than to fiddle with rotating the back especially if you are one who flips the camera from horizontal to vertical, back and forth spontaneously. This one goes to the 645.

Personally I'd love a camera with a 6x6 viewfinder and a 645 back which can be rotated in one move between portrait and landscape orientations. That would be much more convenient than turning the whole camera, imho. A dream system. Each to their own
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 04:21:10 PM »
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Personally I'd love a camera with a 6x6 viewfinder and a 645 back which can be rotated in one move between portrait and landscape orientations. That would be much more convenient than turning the whole camera, imho. A dream system. Each to their own
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Notice that I qualified it with "Handheld". On a tripod, I agree with you.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 04:43:25 PM »
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Your special correspondent from Photokina says:

There's a Sinar-branded version and a Rollei-branded version.

It's 6x6.

It takes Rollei 6008 lenses, new finders. There's no prism finder so far, but a mirror eye-level finder.

*For now* , this camera only accepts one digital back, the one from Sinar, which can be mounted either in portrait or in landscape orientations.

 I have also been told that the price of the body should be in line with the 6008, which is very nice to hear.

I have also seen a multishot Sinar 75 back, and a very interesting gadget, an LCD shutter that allows the Sinar back to do live preview at working aperture.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=77631\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

any news on a wider lens from rollei than 40mm? i hope phase will have a back for them.

paul
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Nemo
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 05:37:53 PM »
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Leica's adquisition will change those plans?
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paul_jones
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 06:18:41 PM »
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any news on a wider lens from rollei than 40mm? i hope phase will have a back for them.

paul
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i hadnt read all the news, it looks like they have a 35 2.8- cool

paul
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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 06:23:11 PM »
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Edmund, did you see a filmback for this gadget??? Or did they say something about it???

Sounds really interesting, you can you use it at waistlevel with a finder or with a prisma like a Hasselblad h.

now they have to beat only the hassyboys from Sweden or Japan or China or whatever.

Tommorrow the Hassyboys will announce their new kid on the block.

Thanks Edmund for your post....


Regrds Heinrich
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rethmeier
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 06:45:44 PM »
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New lens line up!
Specially designed for Digital use!

Flektogon 2,8/35mm, Flektogon 2,8/50mm, Biometar 4/150mm, Biometar 2,8/150mm, and a Vario-Biometar 60-140mm
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Willem Rethmeier
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 09:42:04 PM »
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most important feature to succeed: can it take phase and leaf backs?
if it does this is a killer product...takes the 6000series lenses which would give it by far the widest range to choose from (about 30,40 different lenses?) intergation with the x-act...but in the US it has to be able to play nice with phase and leaf....
the H3D announcement makes this look even better (what is so exciting about a H1/2 with a perfect imacon back integration, plus i thought the H2 was supposed to have that down already?)
i am still waiting for a mamiya announcement...they better come up with something...a 16bit ZDII below 14000$ cold still shake things up....
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rethmeier
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2006, 11:28:36 PM »
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Also,I wonder what's happening with the eMotion-75/6008AF bundle?
There will probably a bundle with the new combo as well!
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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kendal
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 02:02:24 AM »
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- I wonder when will sinar/rollei brings out the technical specification - please soon ;-)
- I hope there will be a bundle offered right from the start - with an acceptable price tag.
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Gigi
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 06:40:11 AM »
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Ironically, there is a good product lurking here. If they opened up the back interface to allow anyone's back to hook up to the camera, there is more chance of success and breaking into the US market. If they keep it proprietary, as is their want typically (Sinar, Rollei), they will not break the Hassy/Leaf/Phase One groups in the US, and I fear the product will remain marginal.

If anyone has any influence with these guys, please please encourage them to think more broadly about market penetration in the US. They will have to give up some of their love of  optimal system design, and the best system integration, which too often places them outside of the mainstream. But ifthey focus on flexibility of the interface, they may stay alive for another 10 years.

In the older days of film, it was OK to be outside the mainstream: there was sufficient market  as you only had to buy your 120 film, pick your camera, and it didn't matter who made it. But now the rules have changed. Imagine each camera maker requiring their own type of film. That would never have worked, and so lo and behold, they standardized on 120 film pretty quickly. If Rollei/Sinar keep this proprietary, and don't get some real market penetration out of this new design, I worry that they won't get another chance.

Sadly Rollei was ahead of the digital curve with their scanning backs some years ago. What happened is that they were too early, and both too expensive and not flexible enough. Hope they don't make that mistake again.

There is a possible exception to this - if they price the Emotion backs low enough, they might persuade people to change horses and take on this whole system. That might work in Europe, and that might be enough market for them - its hard to know those numbers. If they need a big part of the American market, they need to know that it is conservative at heart, and getting American photographers to change backs, software and camera systems is pretty hard to do.

So here's a plea for an open "back" interface, to gain success, and keep this product line alive.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 06:44:58 AM by Geoffreyg » Logged

Geoff
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2006, 07:41:25 AM »
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" If they opened up the back interface to allow anyone's back to hook up to the camera, "


There is another way of looking at it - I bought an Eyelike over a P25 because I could swap systems

I have always seen this as a BIG problem for phase (and leaf??) backs

Too late of course for current owners but a consideration for potential owners
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2006, 12:44:49 AM »
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what about the price range for body/back/80mm? are they talking about @ photokina?  
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2006, 04:24:06 PM »
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From a poor translation off a German site (http://www.photoscala.de/node/2230) :
      
"For the easement of the work sinar the Hy6 is equipped with a swivelling function grasp. Over it the mobile Body in almost any position can be served optimally and ergonomically surely. The LC display integrated in the grasp always makes a reading off of the parameters from each position for the camera possible from same point of view. The new, intuitively detectable control concept permitted thereby a flat hierarchy, all main attitudes can be made directly mechanically. For clearly fewer operating noises provides a new mirror propulsion principle. So far if the mirror was folded upward for exposure federgetrieben and pulled mechanical/electrically again downward, it is pushed to here mechanical/electrically and. The thereby quieter, vibration-poorer enterprise makes a constantly more pleasant working with the new Body.Adaptionsmoeglichkeiten of conventional filmkassetten, as well as for all Sinar for digital moving hurry and products possible of other manufacturers."

"An additional innovation: the exposure measurement and the RGB sensor for the optimal white alignment, independent of the Suchersystem. Supplementing it is to be marked that the camera uses the bayonet and the objectives and/or their technology of the 6000er-Systems von Rollei (central catch, electronic control). Existing objectives can be used in A-position."

So it seems that this camera will take existing Rollei lenses (!), and has a quieter mirror. There is some thing about adaptation of conventional fim cassettes, but whether that means 120 film, or existing Rollei backs is not yet clear.

Geoff
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Geoff
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