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Author Topic: New H3D full frame!!!  (Read 73563 times)
wilburdl
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« on: September 29, 2006, 09:54:57 PM »
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It's finally here. Full frame medium format. The H3D was announced at Photokina, and well, I want one. But at $32,000, I think I'll wait....

Hasselblad Launches World's First 48mm Full-Frame DSLR Camera System

Hasselblad is today firmly positioning itself as the pre-eminent provider of high-end digital cameras with >>the launch of the Hasselblad H3D, the world's first 48mm full-frame DSLR camera system. The H3D is the result of Hasselblad's strategy of taking photographic flexibility and image quality to new levels, as yet unseen in any competing product. When compared with high-end 35mm DSLRs, the H3D delivers unmatched pixel resolution, better colors and detail rendering and a new choice of viewfinders for creative image composition. In comparison with digital backs, the H3D delivers image quality with a higher level of detail and true sharpness thanks to Hasselblad's Digital APO Correction (DAC) and the advances of its new Ultra-Focus functionality. The H3D's full-frame concept offers unique control of image composition and with its new 28mm lens, the H3D allows photographers for the first time ever to take wide angle shots on a 36 x 48mm sensor.

U.S. MSRP Pricing is as follows:
H3D-22: $26,995
H3D-39: $31,995


Link: http://www.hasselblad.com/promotion/h3d.aspx
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Darnell
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2006, 09:59:58 PM »
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It's finally here. Full frame medium format. The H3D was announced at Photokina, and well, I want one. But at $32,000, I think I'll wait....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As was discussed elsewhere, very little is new.

A H2D is just as - or just not as - full frame as the H3D with the same lens.

The same applies to any MF body with a P25, P45, A22 or A75 mounted on a H1 and H2.

The Hassy announcement is mostly a marketing move. Michael's latest article clarifies the situation further in this regard.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 03:29:27 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

A few images online here!
bcroslin
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2006, 10:06:19 PM »
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It's finally here. Full frame medium format. The H3D was announced at Photokina, and well, I want one. But at $32,000, I think I'll wait....

This is a joke right?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2006, 10:06:41 PM by bcroslin » Logged

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kendal
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2006, 03:14:34 AM »
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no better time for the sinar/rollei/leaf alliance to enter the stage with a nice camera system - if they get the price right!  
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2006, 03:34:28 AM »
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no better time for the sinar/rollei/leaf alliance to enter the stage with a nice camera system - if they get the price right! 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78375\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yep, it looks like it might be the right time to get rid of my Hassy H gear... but I don't see Sinar producing anything cheap.

As we speak, Mamiya definitely appears now to be the only remaining reasonnable option in MF. Or an Ebony 23...

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
eronald
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 03:51:38 AM »
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Yep, it looks like it might be the right time to get rid of my Hassy H gear... but I don't see Sinar producing anything cheap.

As we speak, Mamiya definitely appears now to be the only remaining reasonnable option in MF. Or an Ebony 23...

Cheers,
Bernard
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bernard, on this topic please see my reply to you in this other thread

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12400]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=12400[/url]

Edmund
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 04:07:48 AM »
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The H3D isn't full frame if it's 48mm. They have redefined what full frame is to fit the sensor size, it seems.
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michael
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 07:33:19 AM »
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See my new essay on this topic for my perspective on this nonsense.

Michael
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Robin Balas
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2006, 08:25:47 AM »
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The H3D isn't full frame if it's 48mm. They have redefined what full frame is to fit the sensor size, it seems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78385\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, we (the photographic comunity) have redefined "full-frame" into meaning "full coverage" or 1.0x crop factor today. A full-frame CCD was originally reffering to the CCD architechture and the way the data was read out of the chip. Most CCD's used for high-end photographic purposes use a full frame architechure today and that has nothing to do with the physical size of the CCD's. So HB is beeing clever and really are right in claiming a full-frame camera as it uses a full-frame CCD.
I also suspect they could be reffering to the reduced diameter 28mm lens which has a coverage made for the 48x36mm format and hence is a "full-frame" as in full-coverage or 1.0x crop. That would be like Nikon claiming their dSLR's to be full frame with the DX lenses.
MHO.
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2006, 09:36:06 AM »
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I also suspect they could be reffering to the reduced diameter 28mm lens

And I guess to the new higher magnification HVD90x viewfinder
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Quentin
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2006, 10:47:53 AM »
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See my new essay on this topic for my perspective on this nonsense.

Michael
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Well argued essay.  Bad timing also for Hasselblad with the new more open architecture systems becoming available.  The 28mm lens issue is frankly incredible, if true.

Quentin
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2006, 10:55:39 AM »
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If H3 is rated as full frame, what will happen in 20 months time when Dalsa and Kodak bring out real full frame? In Michael's interview with ceo Phase One I think the line was "It's going to be 20 months before a bigger chip is available so we developed the P+ backs while we wait" or similar.

Damien.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2006, 01:26:50 PM »
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See my new essay on this topic for my perspective on this nonsense.

Thanks, Michael. You voiced my own sentiments perfectly. Even if the H system hadn't been closed, the Hy6 seems much more interesting. I can only sympathise with existing Hasselblad owners.
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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2006, 01:36:52 PM »
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So HB is beeing clever and really are right in claiming a full-frame camera as it uses a full-frame CCD.

I don't agree with your argument because you are referring to a CCD description. When the term 'full frame' is describing a camera, it can only mean 1.0x crop factor.

In any case, Hasselblad is dishonest by claiming that it is the "World's First 48mm Full-Frame DSLR Camera System". There is nothing about the H3D format which is a first.

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I also suspect they could be reffering to the reduced diameter 28mm lens which has a coverage made for the 48x36mm format and hence is a "full-frame" as in full-coverage or 1.0x crop. That would be like Nikon claiming their dSLR's to be full frame with the DX lenses.
MHO.

Yes, that's exactly what they are doing, which is deliberately misleading because the H system is marketed as a 645 system.

What happens when true 645 sensors become available? Hasselblad seems to be locking the user into the 48mm format too.

I used to own and love Hasselblad back in the 90s. How the mighty have fallen.
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wilburdl
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2006, 01:54:02 PM »
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See my new essay on this topic for my perspective on this nonsense.

Michael
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WOW. I'm dissapointed. I feel decieved to say the least and after reading your essay, I'll add appalled. I may be a couple of years offf from purchasing a MFDB but with the way the market is closing in, it may make more sense to stay with the Canon 1Ds series.
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Darnell
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2006, 02:14:30 PM »
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so really the H1/2 system will be looked at as a 5 year system..2 bodies, 4,5? lenses...that's it...not unlke the hasselblad 2000 system (not sure abot the name, the one with the film plane shutter)...
first i thought, well the ususal hasselblad nonsense: leaf/mamiya have been selling integrated (but not closed) pro-digital kits (including full frame) for years...and really you don't have to buy the H3, just stay with the H2 (same camera anyway) and keep the leaf/phase backs and buy the new lenses...
the announcement that the H1/2 cannot take any new lenses is simply unbelievable....
anyone who invested in the most expensive (IMHO overpriced because of a perceived monopoly) MF system (ever?) is now left out in the cold....
i guess i would understand if hasselblad would simply force people to get the new body...but do they really think they can force people to switch to their backs? to simply drop their leaf and phase backs to get a imacon back? the only backs out there that still have some serious (color, skintone!) problems?  
maybe the imacon side, which of course makes great scanners and which brought in everything behind the lens (back, software), told the cameramakers: look, in order to get this under control, we have to have a lens to chip to software solution...just has to be just like in our scanners we have to be able to control the light all the way...
i guess anyone with a phase and a 3 year warranty can have their back-mount switched for free anyway...for others it will be a fee...
either way, everything else looks better and more alive then hasselblad right now...
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med007
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2006, 03:31:03 PM »
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The H3 pretty much removes landscape, architecture and prodcuct photographers who want the finest digital lenses for their Ebony, Horseman, Sinar, Arca, Linhoff, Plaubell and other digital platforms.

That is pretty straightforward and a growing market. People want to use a back on a MF body and on their T/S platform.

They also, As Michael points out so well more H2 users are for sure

1) miffed to the nth that the're H2 investment is devalued so much

2) angry that they can't choose their own back

3)feel they are being cheated and exploited.

Non H3 users, unless they could care less about history will turn their backs on H3 as the Hy6 comes to market and there's a huge amount of pressure from Leaf, Sinar and Phase one for the Rollie heir to succeed.

Michael's videoblog from photokina says it all

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/photokin...at-report.shtml

Asher Kelman
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 04:32:40 PM by med007 » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2006, 03:41:17 PM »
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do they really think they can force people to switch to their backs?

Obviously the answer is yes or they wouldn't have done it.

Hasselblad's share of the new MF DSLR body market must be at least twice their share of the MF back market. So Poulsen's challenge as CEO is crystal clear, leverage Hasselblad's body strength to lift their back business. He's chosen a pretty brutal route, but stripped of the emotion I'd judge his chances (pre Hy6) as very good. After all, what other choices did a photographer have?

Hasselblad V? Fond as I am of the V system I'd be the first to recognise it's in the digital dark ages and probably not long for this life.

Contax? And be faced with scouring Ebay for important accessories and urgently needed spare parts? No thanks.

Mamiya? No clarity or confidence regarding their future direction or stability.

Pentax? Where's the product?

Rolleiflex (pre Hy6)? Little US presence, a boutique Euro brand.

Sinar? Death by ticket shock.

Hasselblad H1/2? No doubt about it, ironically the H3D's biggest competitor actually sits in Poulsen's stable. But he's perfectly placed to progressively strangle that particular rival by cutting off the oxygen of new lenses and accessories.

So yes, no matter what we think of the morality, IMO Hasselblad had a very strong chance of just bullying their way to success.

Then along came the Hy6!

But even now Hasselblad will have a clean run at the market for at least six months until the Hy6 arrives. And selling anything in today's world is as much about marketing and distribution as about products, which means the Hy6 will still have a mountain to climb even when and if the cameras are rolling merrily off the production line.

Hasselblad may be reprehensible, but rationally I'd still rate their chances of growing the bottom line with the H3D as good. But I bet Poulsen's throwing some black looks at the Hy6's Photokina stand, because without them it would have been a banker's bet that he'd have succeed.
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michael
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« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »
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Good analysis Gary. The Hy6 is the spoiler.

Thing is, those inside the industry have known about the Hy6 for some months. One has to therefore assume that Poulsen did as well.

There's even more to the story than meets the eye. Somewhat like those nested Russian dolls. But over time it will all come out.

Interesting times ahead.

Michael
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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2006, 06:33:16 PM »
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the Hy6 has been rumoured for a while...rollei has been working on it for years, i first heard about it one year ago (it was supposed to come out...)....but with the sale of the company....anyway it looks like what took them so long was worth the wait.....

Gary
after reading your post i realized that the H1/2 is as dead as contax...you can still buy them, but there will be no new development and who knows when hasselblad will pull the plug entirely....at least contax had a long life and there are a lot of lenses and add ons out there...the H1 doesn't even have a WLF?
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