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Author Topic: OMG...$975 for a DVD  (Read 13764 times)
soslund
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« on: October 10, 2006, 07:31:20 PM »
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I'm sorry, but $975 is just plain excessive for a DVD.  He would sell a LOT more product and do much better from a financial standpoint if he were to lower the price.  I have no trouble writing a check for big $, but c'mon Alain....
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John Camp
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2006, 09:56:10 PM »
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Yeah, but he only has to sell one of them.  

JC
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2006, 05:44:44 AM »
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Yeah, but he only has to sell one of them.   

JC
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79880\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well it appears he already has... to some guy in Arizona.

Without having seen the content, my opinion isn't worth much, but, whilst on the one hand this is actually a ballpark price for the average "industry workshop" DVD, generally these things are funded by corporate accounts and are largely worthless.  In this case, who knows.  I have Alain's Composition CD, which is a lot cheaper, and worth having, but even then, their is little presentatin - just s bunch of files which you more or less have to sort through yourself. If the DVD is actually a "DVD", in the sense of a fully organised set of presentations and supporting material, with a menu, and easy navigation, in the LLVJ style, fine, but if it is just a DVD because the files woldn't fit on a CD, well that's another thing.

I'm also not so sure why Alain's monitor calibration profiles would be useful to anybody else....

I guess if you need to know exactly how a succesful businessman produces landscape prints for sale, then it could be a valuable investment. But I have to say it makes ImagePrint RIP - another way of greatly improving your prints -  look like a bargain :-)
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abaazov
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2006, 10:31:15 AM »
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for 975 bones you can buy all the how-to books ever written by some of the best photographers ever.....
i guess m. briot is targeting a very specific crowd.

amnon
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David White
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2006, 10:44:31 AM »
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Having purchased other materials from Alain and getting in on the early offering which was prominently offered on his web site, I purchased the DVD for $775.

I've found that the DVD is very well organized wth a wealth of materials.  Every lesson is presented as a Quicktime movie with additional supporting materials which can be viewed separately.  I've found that working on one of my images in Photoshop while viewing a movie presentation has been very helpful.  I can pause the movie and try what he is presenting on my own photographs and instantly see what works and what doesn't work on a particular image and why.

The DVD has more material and presentations that you would probably get in a 2-3 day workshop on printing and is costs a lot less than you would pay to go to such a workshop when you look at the workshop cost, transportation, lodging and meals.

The material is superb and covers just about everything you need to know about how to produce a fine art photograph from capture to mounting and matting and I've found it to be a worthwhile investment for me.  I've already had several concepts and techniques that I have struggled with cleared up and made easily uderstandable.

Certainly, $975 is a lt of money, but when taken in perspective it isn't that much.  This is certainly no corporate fluff training DVD.
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David White
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2006, 02:05:34 PM »
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The material is superb and covers just about everything you need to know about how to produce a fine art photograph from capture to mounting and matting and I've found it to be a worthwhile investment for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79949\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's the bottom line, not that the content is a DVD or someone who's in person. In fact, there may be significant advantages to having the content on DVD such as being able to see it over and over again, stop it while working on a tutorial, etc. So I'm not sure that $975 for the content on DVD isn't any less appropriate than having some guy there in person or in a small classroom environment.
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Andrew Rodney
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ddolde
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2006, 02:47:20 PM »
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Hey don't buy it !  

I am certainly not although I did have some interest until the price was announced.  Even $775 is over the top in my book.
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dmcginlay
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2006, 02:49:56 PM »
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Excessive? Hmmmmmmm, let me think - if I have a legal problem a good lawyer will probably charge me $200 to $300 per hour.

Alain, you are in the wrong business if you want to make money!  

No you are not in the wrong business - you make music I can see!

Your DVD is on my Xmas list.


Take care,

Don
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soslund
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2006, 05:31:11 PM »
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For $334.24, you can get all 15 issues of the Video Journal and the beta 3 tutorial on LightRoom by Michael.  I think this puts the matter into perspective.
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hcubell
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2006, 05:46:06 PM »
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For $334.24, you can get all 15 issues of the Video Journal and the beta 3 tutorial on LightRoom by Michael.  I think this puts the matter into perspective.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think Alain priced it based upon what he charges for one of his printing workshops. It makes perfect sense in that respect, but I believe it is a poor business judgment. Better to sell 500 copies at $200 per copy than 20 at $875.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2006, 06:41:39 PM »
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I would buy a copy at $200.  So, is MR going to come out with one closer to that $200 mark?  
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soslund
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2006, 07:22:14 PM »
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That's the bottom line, not that the content is a DVD or someone who's in person. In fact, there may be significant advantages to having the content on DVD such as being able to see it over and over again, stop it while working on a tutorial, etc. So I'm not sure that $975 for the content on DVD isn't any less appropriate than having some guy there in person or in a small classroom environment.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79976\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If not being somewhere to observe an event is not important, then why are Super Bowl tickets so outrageously expensive, but I can watch the same event, even record it for further viewing, at my home at no cost to me!!
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 07:25:45 PM »
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If not being somewhere to observe an event is not important, then why are Super Bowl tickets so outrageously expensive, but I can watch the same event, even record it for further viewing, at my home at no cost to me!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80023\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The goal of going to the Super Bowl ISN'T education, it's entertainment. Just like listening to music live versus on a CD isn't the same. But we're talking about an educational experience no? I think your analogy is a bit off.
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Andrew Rodney
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NLund
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2006, 09:39:20 PM »
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Like many of you, if I had the money....I would buy it. I agree thoroughly about being able to replay the videos and learn more each time. I've long had questions about the specific steps and nuances of making a gorgeous print.

At this stage / level of my photography I'd be pressed to decide between a new lens, a physical workshop, this DVD, or many other things.
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macgyver
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2006, 10:35:06 PM »
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I think the issue most people would have with that isn't so much paying for the content, but the disk.  Seminars prove that people are willing to pay big bucks for good teachers, but often the feel like they get more out of it.  At the very least you have to go somewhere and that's worth something   .  No one likes to feel like they payed many hundreds of dollars for just this little piece of plastic or silicone or whatever it is.

(the DVD format doesnt much appeal to me, i would far rather have a book, but I can see what everyone means)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 10:36:04 PM by macgyver » Logged
alainbriot
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2006, 01:30:21 AM »
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As several forum members have pointed out, the DVD is priced similarly to my Expressive Print Seminar because the knowledge on the DVD is similar to the knowledge taught during the Seminar.  In fact, the DVD goes further than the Seminar because it covers matting, framing, presentation, protection and curating which we do not go into during the Seminar.  On the other hand the seminar gives you a chance to ask personal questions, interact with myself and other participants, be there in person and have your work reviewed (in some seminars).  All in all, I think it is a tie, hence I feel the pricing is fair.  However, in my view, the travel costs (flight, car rental, lodging, incidentals, etc.) make attending the seminar more costly, especially if you live far away from Arizona.  

The DVD also comes with a complete audio recording of last year's Expressive Print seminar and with a 5x7 companion print from one of the images I work on in the DVD.

From the feedback I have received and from the feedback you can read on this forum, I strongly believe that the DVD is priced fairly.

Eventually, the choice is yours to purchase the DVD, or to attend the seminar, or to pass on both.  

However, I do not think it would be fair to Expressive Print Seminar participants to discount the DVD to a fraction of the Seminar's cost.  

Best regards,

Alain
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 01:48:32 AM by alainbriot » Logged

Alain Briot
Author of Mastering Landscape Photography, Mastering Composition, Creativity and Personal Style., Marketing Fine Art Photography and How Photographs are Sold.
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2006, 02:31:03 AM »
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It really is a business decision for Alain, and if it works for him, finally that's what matters...

But more generally, why is this stuff so expensive in the US (photo seminars, workshops, etc) - in Europe similar things are far cheaper.  I get the feeling that in the US, these events are to a degree appealing to people's vanity - they like to be associated with Alain, Michael, whoever.  In Europe, there seems to be considerably less value placed on names - a workshop with Joe Cornish, for example, or Charlie Waite, can be had for well under Michael's (or Alain's, or Steve Kossack's...) prices. And a full fine art print workshop (e.g http://www.fineartpix.ch/setangebot.htm) costs around $800 for a weekend ...

Ok, so we pay more for cameras and lenses, but, well, we seem to be far less willing to pay (over ?) high prices for expert tuition....  I guess it is down to market forces. If people are willing to pay, why price cheaper!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 02:32:09 AM by drm » Logged

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David Mantripp
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GregW
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2006, 08:46:31 AM »
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Alain has made a commercial decision based on the amount of effort and value he has put in to the project which I'm sure we can all respect.  

I'm still struggling with the beginning of the process (Composition) so I can't see myself buying the DVD in the near future.  I have signed up for the new book, which I am very much looking forward to.

There are a number of photographers on the www who have an established body of work to offer.  In my opinion people place a high value on integrity, quality and sustainability.  People like Michael and Alain are able to offer the kind of sustainability people look for when buying products and services over the internet.  That's not to say there are not hundreds of others out there equally good.  I'm sure there are.  It's just that these guys have first mover advantage.  Something else I have noticed.  Both Michael and Alain have quite uninspiring website design and layouts.  Yet people see through that and on in to the content which is clearly far more important.  I see quite a powerful positive message in that today.

To follow on from what David said.  I have also noticed that photography workshops in Europe are the inverse of US based workshops.  It's unusual as most things in Europe are more expensive.  

p.s. David.  I had to look up snowhenge.  It was intriguing me too much!  I was kind of what I expected but a world away from a snowy scene in Wiltshire!!  Nice site btw.  I also noticed that like me you are an exile in CH.  I have been in ZG for about 4 years.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 08:49:12 AM by GregW » Logged
soslund
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2006, 05:45:34 PM »
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The goal of going to the Super Bowl ISN'T education, it's entertainment. Just like listening to music live versus on a CD isn't the same. But we're talking about an educational experience no? I think your analogy is a bit off.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80024\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Pardon me, but the analogy has to do with attending a function in person....that was the point....and the analogy was right on point.  Thanks.
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ddolde
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 09:33:25 PM »
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Remember, this is the Age of Hype.  Very little is what it's cracked up to be.
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