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Author Topic: Eizo Graphics Monitors  (Read 11691 times)
Boghb
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« on: October 13, 2006, 05:40:19 AM »
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In case you want to buy one of those super-expensive Eizo graphics monitors, consider my story.

I bought their flagship graphics model last spring at double the price of anything else on the market.        It was claimed to be the most accurate wide gamut monitor on the market, and a five-year warranty seemed like a full guarantee against defects.

It soon became apparent that this model suffered from a major defect: light fall of and color inconsistency as you moved away from the center.  

They now claim to have solved this problem.  But they call it a new model -- not a recall -- and force you to pay full price for it.  Incredibly, they claim the problem with the old monitor was its "characteristic" and not a defect, so it is not covered under their warranty.

What do you do with your defective $35,00 monitor you bought six months ago?  "That is not our problem" -- says Eizo here in Switzerland.

This is a terrible way to treat your customers who put so much faith in your company and your product.  I, for one, am switching to the new NEC.
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RedRebel
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2006, 11:49:26 AM »
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This is a sad story especially for a $3500 monitor, but about which Eizo monitor are you talking about?

This site Prad review shows two reviews from Eizo's new S2110 and S2410 monitors ($1000-$1500 I think, not the colour edge series) in which they claim that the 21 inch is very good, but it's 24 inch larger brother is not evenly illuminated etc..

Keep in mind then NEC will launch some 24 and 26 inch wide screen monitors within a few weeks.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 12:02:30 PM by RedRebel » Logged
Steve Kerman
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2006, 12:54:26 PM »
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Keep in mind then NEC will launch some 24 and 26 inch wide screen monitors within a few weeks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80370\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A 26-inch widescreen!!?  OK, Spill!  Got a link?  What pixel density?

Being that I've got this over-40-eyes thing going on, I've been waiting with bated breath for a 26-inch, 1920x1200 monitor.  I'm hoping that this is it, and not another of the ultra-tiny-pixel wonders like the Apple 30" monitory.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 12:58:33 PM by Steve Kerman » Logged
RedRebel
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2006, 02:45:46 PM »
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I have read it on the DPReview forum in a post from a guy named "Trav Bomb" he clams to be a NEC employee.

He claims that NEC will launch a 24 and a 26 inch model. Especially the 26 inch model should be preferred for imaging, since it would cover 92% of Adobe RGB.

The only links I could find for you are:
DPReview

HardForum

I also asked NEC Europe to confirm this rumour, because I conder a Eizo 21 or 24 eidescreen S or EC series, but I hear mixed opinion, especially about the 24 inch LCD screens.

I am not in a hurry buying my first LCD, so I wait what NEC answers to me.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 02:48:17 PM by RedRebel » Logged
Steve Kerman
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 03:47:39 PM »
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Thanks for the links RedRebel.  There's a model number in there (LCD2690WUXi), which I was able to search on an find a bit more info.  It apparently is 1920x1600.  It's supposed to be out last week, but I can't find anything official, or anybody selling it.  Hopefully it's late, and not just a very detailed rumor.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2006, 10:40:55 AM »
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Getting back to the subject that Boghb raised, companies should not be allowed to get away with this - especially if they did not offer to help you diagnose whether the problem is with their product or something in your computer system causing the trouble. Any company selling high-end merchandise of this kind has a corporate responsibility to help customers be sure both parties understand where the problem is, then the appropriate side can take the necessary corrective action.

The fact that they seemed not to have done this with you, but simply washed their hands of you and the problem, if it were me, a very stiff letter would be addressed to the President of Eizo in Japan (in case the problem is misbehaviour of their Swiss agent or branch office) telling him bluntly that in the case of that particular unit or model, they were manufacturing rubbish, misrepresenting it in their advertising, and unless they refund you your 3500 or apply it fully to a new product that doesn't suffer these defects you will do everything in your power to make it impossible for them to sell another monitor anywhere in the world. This kind of letter under these circumstances, while harsh, usually gets quick results.

The internet is a powerful instrument these days for keeping delinquent performers on their toes, and as consumers we need to be prepared to use it to the fullest extent necessary and permissible for these purposes, so that we don't get taken to the cleaners in the manner you have described.

I am now using a Lacie 321, and I am satisfied with it. I know about the high-end Eizo monitors, but from what you say it appears this is a company I should avoid consiering in the future, as after-sales support is really important.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 11:57:10 AM by MarkDS » Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
RedRebel
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2006, 11:44:21 AM »
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I agree with that, I also think that a company that claims to be the Rolls Royce amoung the profesional monitors, should provide a *Perfect Panel* guarantee (Panels without defective dot's) just like Philips does on some panels.
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ddolde
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2006, 02:12:22 PM »
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I have had an Eizo CG21 for three years and it's totally awesome, never a problem.

This is a 1600x1200 model, not wide aspect.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2006, 03:29:37 PM »
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Doug, that's a model I was interested in, but Eizo's representation in Canada is obscure so I went with LaCie. But of course that's not the point - no doubt they make and sell many fine monitors that serve people well. The issue is how the company behaves with customers when the product isn't fine and doesn't work well.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Boghb
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 12:14:31 AM »
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MarkDS

Mine is the flagship graphics model the GC221.  I am not sure if the smaller 21 inch model has the same problem with even illumination and color, but my model has a wider gamut.

I bought the monitor when I started printing large, exactly because it was reputed to produce the most accurate color and illumination.  For a while, I did not even suspect the monitor and kept thinking the problem lay somewhere in color management.  

I did not bother to complain sooner to avoid dealing with the Eizo local rep, who is just plain nasty.  But when the new model came out claiming to have solved the problem, I asked if I could upgrade by paying less than full price.

The Eizo rep reprimanded me for even asking (this is Europe, remember) and said there was "absolutely" nothing Eizo was willing to do except sell me a new printer, because the "problem" I was complaining about was really not a problem but a "feature" of the old model.

What do you do with companies like this?

Untill a class action lawyer comes along to sue Eizo, become rich, and maybe give us a small piece of the loot, I am afraid there is nothing that we consumers can do.  A letter to Japan might get me a polite response, but I doubt a company like this cares enough to do even that.
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RedRebel
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 04:07:21 AM »
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As a photographer your just a small customer who has little power. If you were a big company with one hunderd Eizo monitors in the company, they would replace that monitor the same day, thats said but true.

I think it's good to mention problems like this. We are paing double (or more) the price for a high end monitor, compared to a simple Dell or Philips, so we may expect a flawles device and excellent service.

It's also typical that there are so few (good) reviews about monitors. There are many reviews about cameras (one better then the other) but there are only a very few (mostly) poor reviews about high end monitors. This is strange, because we spend more time behind a monitor for viewing and editing images then we spend time in the field with our camera. I have looked around here (Netherlands) but there is not a single shop that has these higher end monitors (Eizo Sxxx, CExxx, CGxxx, or NEX 90 series) in stock so you can actualy look for yourself if you like the monitor or not and to see if it's free from defects (read: I wan't a perfect panel for that money).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 04:15:03 AM by RedRebel » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 07:59:16 AM »
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MarkDS

Mine is the flagship graphics model the GC221.  I am not sure if the smaller 21 inch model has the same problem with even illumination and color, but my model has a wider gamut.

I bought the monitor when I started printing large, exactly because it was reputed to produce the most accurate color and illumination.  For a while, I did not even suspect the monitor and kept thinking the problem lay somewhere in color management. 

I did not bother to complain sooner to avoid dealing with the Eizo local rep, who is just plain nasty.  But when the new model came out claiming to have solved the problem, I asked if I could upgrade by paying less than full price.

The Eizo rep reprimanded me for even asking (this is Europe, remember) and said there was "absolutely" nothing Eizo was willing to do except sell me a new printer, because the "problem" I was complaining about was really not a problem but a "feature" of the old model.

What do you do with companies like this?

Untill a class action lawyer comes along to sue Eizo, become rich, and maybe give us a small piece of the loot, I am afraid there is nothing that we consumers can do.  A letter to Japan might get me a polite response, but I doubt a company like this cares enough to do even that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You don't need to wait for a class action lawyer, and you don't need to feel blocked by the local Eizo rep - nasty or not. These companies do not like to lose face - especially Japanese companies - and believe it or not many of them ARE sensitive to noise - but you must be prepared to make the noise. Believe me, don't under-estimate the power of one person. What these companies trade on is FEAR - the FEAR of the individual that he has no power over big business. In today's world this is no longer true. The most critical constraints are the ones we build within our own minds, because if we aren't prepared to escape from our own skepticism, we are stuck right there and nothing more happens - that is exactly what your Eizo rep is trading on. Once people escape from their chains and confront these companies politely but very firmly, you'd be surprised what can happen. Let me put it this way - the very worst that can happen is that they will ignore you. The second worst is that they send you a polite letter saying there is nothing they can do for you. More often than not you will get much better than that. Try it. You have absolutely nothing to lose except the time it takes to research the name and address of the President of Eizo, writing the letter and mailing it - registered with return receipt acknowledgement service.  

I have had to do this sort of thing with three huge corporations (computer and photographic) already, and out of that experience these companies actually respected me and from that point very good, enduring working relationships have followed. It all depends on showing them you are serious, polite and reasonable, know what the problem is, know what should be done about it, prepared to remind them of their moral and legal obligations and prepared to create a lot of public trouble for them if they chose to ignore you.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
RedRebel
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2006, 01:31:45 PM »
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Thanks for the links RedRebel.  There's a model number in there (LCD2690WUXi), which I was able to search on an find a bit more info.  It apparently is 1920x1600.  It's supposed to be out last week, but I can't find anything official, or anybody selling it.  Hopefully it's late, and not just a very detailed rumor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80411\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have had confirmation from NEC Europe today, that the LCD2690WUXi, will be available at the resellers in early November.

This 26"  16:10 90 series LCD panel, will have NEC current best technolgies and will cost around 1400 Euro's incl VAT (~USD1750). According to the information from the DPReview forum this (26") monitor will cover 92% AdobeRGB space and have a resolution of 1920x1200. It's smaller brother (24") will have the same resolution but not the large AdobeRGB colour space.

It's typical that Eizo Germany announces that the have dropped the prices of the S2110 and S2410 with 23%... I think Eizo is getting a bit nervous. If these new NEC monitors with S-IPS panels have the same or better image quality as the 2190UXi, the prices for the Eizo EC210 and EC240 are not justified anymore.

So if you are in the market for high end monitor, the advice is....wait another month and see what happens. Maybe the price of the NEC2190UXi (4:3) will drop also, because the 2690UXi will be their new top model.
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Boghb
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2006, 03:12:46 PM »
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MarkDs

You are right.  Writing letters and posting in internet fora can help.  But it is time consuming and sometimes stressful.  Big company calculation is that most people will just accept a certain amount of unfairness without complaining too much.  

In Eizo's case, the problem seems to lie more in picking their distributors.  With a product like this, the distributor's role is key, and Eizo's distributors seem to do their best to drive people away.  You mentioned you avoided Eizo for this reason.

It is such a waste for a manufacturer to put so much money and effort into getting a leading edge in terms of product performance, and then appoints a distributor whose bad demeanor and service keeps people away from from buying that product.  

RedRebel

Do you know if they also plan to release a larger version of their 21 inch LED monitor?

Thank you both for your posts.
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RedRebel
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 02:37:30 AM »
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It is such a waste for a manufacturer to put so much money and effort into getting a leading edge in terms of product performance, and then appoints a distributor whose bad demeanor and service keeps people away from from buying that product.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80729\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are right, my experience with manufacturers in industry is that it is ussualy the distributor who is not aware of any problems with the equipment, or is not capable of recognizing and solving them, or simple doesn't wan't to solve them because the only think about money and not reputation.

I even have simmilar experiences with medical equipemt. As soon I have contact with the manufacturer I get all possible support, but when I have to depend on the distributor I can wait for months. Oh yes, and as soon you do contact the manufacturer, the distributor gets upset...  

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RedRebel

Do you know if they also plan to release a larger version of their 21 inch LED monitor?

Thank you both for your posts.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80729\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No I don't know that, I only asked them about their multisync 90 series, not their Spectra series.

But the problems is, that you never now how long a "State of the Art" monitor will stay "State of the Art", because LCD screens get better every 6-12 months.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 02:39:25 AM by RedRebel » Logged
RedRebel
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 11:28:45 AM »
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After a second contact with NEC Europe, I found out that they don't know of any other releases in this category of monitors. They also don't expect the 24" version within a short time.

The specs of the 26" are:
NEC Multisync LCD 2690 WUXi
NEC Multisync LCD 2690 WUXi Black
Inch: 25.5" 16:10
Panel: IPS
Resolution: 1920x1200
Brightness: 400cd/m2
Contrast: 800:1
Viewing angle: 178/178 (CR 10:1)
Colours: 16.7 Mio
Respons time: 7ms (gray to gray)
Connectors: d-sub,DVI+D,DVI-I
Weight: 12,3kg
hor.freq: 31.5-91.1khz
vert.freq: 50-85khz
Power consuptiun: 70W/<1W
B/H/T: 590*444-594*306
Powersupply: internal
hight adj:130mm
Swivel:170/170
Pivot: yes
Navset: yes
Sound: optional


Street price approx: 1400 Euro's ~ $1750,- incl VAT.

This is al I know, or what they are willing to tell me at this moment.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 11:29:29 AM by RedRebel » Logged
Boghb
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2006, 02:09:26 AM »
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I just ordered NEC's LED monitor, the one Michael reviewed a while back.  I know I will get a wide gamut and precise, perfectly even color and illumination.

My 8-month-old $35,00 Eizo, together with its dishonored five-year warranty, is headed for the garbage and written off as a total loss!  

And that is exactly where this company and this product belong.
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Caracalla
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2006, 05:48:39 AM »
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Boghb,

Would you care to share your first impression?

Regards
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TheSultan
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« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2006, 04:08:21 PM »
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I am an investor in Japan and visited Eizo Nanao yesterday and told the senior manager there your story. He would like to help. The Swiss distributor is actually now a wholly owned affiliate of the firm and he is not happy to hear about your experience. I think he can help. I have told him about this page so he can see your problem. I wonder how he can contact you? Basically I was impressed with the company from my research side, but that doesn't solve your problem. I hope I can put you guys together to work it out.
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bjarner
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2006, 08:30:24 AM »
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In case you want to buy one of those super-expensive Eizo graphics monitors, consider my story.

I bought their flagship graphics model last spring at double the price of anything else on the market.        It was claimed to be the most accurate wide gamut monitor on the market, and a five-year warranty seemed like a full guarantee against defects.

It soon became apparent that this model suffered from a major defect: light fall of and color inconsistency as you moved away from the center. 

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80206\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I understand your fustration, but a part of the reason why you are not satisfied with the monitor is because you didn't do your homework before buying the monitor. You do not specify the model, but from you description I gues it is the S2110W or S2410W, which defenetly isn't the flasgship monitor from EIZO. Your primary work on the monitor seems to be image editing, so why do you buy the monitor in their range aimed at office application, games and video editing?  

The flagship line is the Color Edge series like the CG211 and CG221. These monitors are aimed at image editing. Expecting a widescreen monitor to be without light fall of in the corners really amazes me. The only monitor to offer light and colour consistency all over the screen is the CG-models.

I must say, that I can't see EIZO have done anything wrong in this case. If I buy a Mercedes A-class I don't expect all the features of a S-class modell even though I have bought an expensive car compared to competing brands.

/Klaus
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