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Author Topic: Canon Medium Format Camera  (Read 52395 times)
Martin_Tokyo
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« on: October 13, 2006, 08:54:53 AM »
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My Japanese friend came yesterday with a news of his friend....... that Canon is going to release a Medium Format Camera next Year.
Do you know something about that?
Martin
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AndrewDyer
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2006, 09:24:19 AM »
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A friend of a friend of a friend??
Any more details?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 09:37:22 AM by AndrewDyer » Logged

Steve Kerman
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2006, 09:39:59 AM »
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A friend of a friend of a friend??[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80225\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Having played the game "Telephone" a time or two, I can easily imagine that the original rumor was that Canon is going to release a camera with medium format resolution--22 mp--next year.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 09:41:10 AM by Steve Kerman » Logged
cescx
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2006, 09:42:06 AM »
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My Japanese friend came yesterday with a news of his friend....... that Canon is going to release a Medium Format Camera next Year.
Do you know something about that?
Martin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Friends of friends. ... I do not believe that canon among in the MF arena, I do not  believe that interest  to sell alone some thousands of cameras, although if did it, would give a final MF blow... do not we forget that canon next to Sony, are the unique camera-makers with own digital technology.
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Francesc Costa
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2006, 09:51:33 AM »
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not we forget that canon next to Sony, are the unique camera-makers with own digital technology.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80228\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

...and Kodak and Samsung...
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bcroslin
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2006, 09:53:42 AM »
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This belongs over at DPreview. Give us a break.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2006, 10:12:24 AM »
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Yea, and pigs can fly?
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Ed Jack
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2006, 10:40:07 AM »
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This belongs over at DPreview. Give us a break.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes too true, this is an inclusive forum but is mostly self govourning.. in other words please do not visit this forum again, as Michael is too busy makin photographs to waste time removing rumour that is so radiculous so as to be idle time wasting.

You have to be harsh to be kind,

  sorry

  Ed
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eronald
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2006, 10:40:10 AM »
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Yea, and pigs can fly?
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Yes they can - first class !

[a href=\"http://www.pigs4ever.com/news/flying_pig1.htm]http://www.pigs4ever.com/news/flying_pig1.htm[/url]

Edmund
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Lester
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2006, 11:10:27 AM »
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This could be true, Canon already max out the 1DsMII if they didn't, why don't we see a new offering? They are just a company that want to take over the world.

Ten years ago, if someone say digital will take over the film market, someone would say "When Pigs Could Fly"
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I am a old fart, over 60
izaack
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2006, 11:34:33 AM »
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Which goes to prove the adage that there's one born every minute...
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pss
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2006, 12:41:21 PM »
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i ususally don't like these kinds of rumours either, but i have heard (from a DMF rep) that canon will come out with a silghtly larger chip, about 36x30? (4:3) to accomodate the 22mipx they want with about the same pixel size as the 1DsmkII...these numbers are not real technical information, only guidelines as he explained the direction canon seems to be going....the chip won't be 16bit (i am sure the rep might be praying for that) but canon does not need that anyway, 12bit keeps the price down and the quality is plenty for most applications anyway...they will leave the crumbs for the DMF makers....as they do now...
with a chip/camera like that, they could really eat up the market that he ZD tried to go for...
it seems to be a logical step for me, i am sure they won't go to real MF, no need for that, but to make the chip just a little larger, bring it to the 4:3 format, maybe even use the same lenses? a 34x30 chip would have no problems with existing lenses?
anyway, this is what i heard from someone in the industry....canon makes their own chips, they have been the only ones to force full frame, they are a market leader, their sales are very strong, they can't even keep the 1DsmkII in stock, even the used canon 1ds market is strong...this seems to be a logical step...
and of course there is also the fovenon type chip that canon has been working on for years....i have no info on that...just re-heating that rumor...
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Steve Kerman
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2006, 03:43:41 PM »
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pss, you would need to keep the diagonal of the capture area to no longer than the diagonal of 24x36, which is around 43mm, to keep within the expected image circle of existing lenses.

There would also be an issue with "flower"-type lens hoods, which expect the current aspect ratio.  Coming out with new hoods would seem to be a minor problem, though.


Edit: If my math is correct, a 4:3 sensor with the same diagonal as standard 35mm is 34.6x26.  That only gives you a 4% increase in sensor area.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 03:54:20 PM by Steve Kerman » Logged
pss
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2006, 04:46:02 PM »
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pss, you would need to keep the diagonal of the capture area to no longer than the diagonal of 24x36, which is around 43mm, to keep within the expected image circle of existing lenses.

There would also be an issue with "flower"-type lens hoods, which expect the current aspect ratio.  Coming out with new hoods would seem to be a minor problem, though.
Edit: If my math is correct, a 4:3 sensor with the same diagonal as standard 35mm is 34.6x26.  That only gives you a 4% increase in sensor area.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80294\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i mentioned the lens issue when he told me about the new sensor...he reminded me of the eos-mount switch...canon is not afraid to take necessary steps...
reading these forums...how many cameras could canon sell with a 22mpix larger chip @ 8000$ and a GOOD 24mm @1500$?
i think that this camera would be a Q4 2007 release at best, but canon did not show anything at kina and won't show anything at photo east (which means they won't ship a new flagship for at least 6months) so....who knows?
i just wanted to mention all this, because it came from a reliable source and a step in that direction would make sense, especially since canon controls everything from the manufacture of the chip to the lenses and software....hasselblad anyone?
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narikin
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2006, 08:37:03 PM »
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deja vu anyone?

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=10863

personally I still think it is inevitable, but, whatever...
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2006, 07:08:23 PM »
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I have trouble believing Canon would go to the trouble of releasing a whole new platform for a sensor size increase of just 12.5%

Either they will stick to the 35mm market or try and take over 645 market. Just my opinion.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2006, 08:22:45 PM »
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And your friend of a friend is also buying a new 5D for $800 online
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rainer_v
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2006, 10:48:06 PM »
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to come on this rumor game also ( and allow you to blame me if you like to do so.... ):
i have heard from a big canon distributor before photokina the following things:
( he itself order some hundreds of 1ds2 before! photokina cause he knew for sure that there will no new model,- he expected a big run on the camera after photokina again and wanted to have enough in stock ).

1. no new 1ds2 at photokina ( go to openphotographyforum , there i posted that also 2 weeks before photokina ).
2. 1ds-mk2n next year at PMA. same updates than formerlywith the 1d-mk2, larger lcd etc.
3. canon goes to mf 2007 at pma or photokina,- which sensor size ever this will mean. sounds not unlogic to think in 30x36mm, although i think more in the actual size with 36x48mm and 33 mp,- they just need to stitch their actual sensor therefore.


for me the canon-mf thing has logic,- they made much more money beeing the technologic leader in 35mm digital than with the 1ds itself (same than formel1 for car manufactors ). and it becomes very hard to improve here the cameras more. even the 5d has in fact the same resolution, so also the nikon 2dx,- all other come closer and closer. hard to see here in35mm an visible improvement in terms of resolution without making significant better lenses.

so they would need new lenses in any case, it is not cheaper to develop them in 35mm than in mf,- mf could be a 2, lineup without putting the existing 35mm lineup to the 2. place.
i believe that rumor.
and the market could grow significant up again, many 1ds2 users would climb the mf way if there would be similar performance for a better price than now.
i know a p25 or p20 becomes cheap now,-
but compare honestly what performance deliver a 1ds2 or a 5d, and how problemless these canons do what they promise( no colorcasts, no magenta flare, really low hi-iso  noise, fast shooting speed, great af, weather sealed,  )........ it would be very tempting for many people to have similar features in a mf bodywith the canon simplicity and experience.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 04:14:38 AM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2006, 04:22:43 AM »
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to come on this rumor game also ( and allow you to blame me if you like to do so.... ):
i have heard from a big canon distributor before photokina the following things:
( he itself order some hundreds of 1ds2 before! photokina cause he knew for sure that there will no new model,- he expected a big run on the camera after photokina again and wanted to have enough in stock ).

1. no new 1ds2 at photokina ( go to openphotographyforum , there i posted that also 2 weeks before photokina ).
2. 1ds-mk2n next year at PMA. same updates than formerlywith the 1d-mk2, larger lcd etc.
3. canon goes to mf 2007 at pma or photokina,- which sensor size ever this will mean. sounds not unlogic to think in 30x36mm, although i think more in the actual size with 36x48mm and 33 mp,- they just need to stitch their actual sensor therefore.
for me the canon-mf thing has logic,- they made much more money beeing the technologic leader in 35mm digital than with the 1ds itself (same than formel1 for car manufactors ). and it becomes very hard to improve here the cameras more. even the 5d has in fact the same resolution, so also the nikon 2dx,- all other come closer and closer. hard to see here in35mm an visible improvement in terms of resolution without making significant better lenses.

so they would need new lenses in any case, it is not cheaper to develop them in 35mm than in mf,- mf could be a 2, lineup without putting the existing 35mm lineup to the 2. place.
i believe that rumor.
and the market could grow significant up again, many 1ds2 users would climb the mf way if there would be similar performance for a better price than now.
i know a p25 or p20 becomes cheap now,-
but compare honestly what performance deliver a 1ds2 or a 5d, and how problemless these canons do what they promise( no colorcasts, no magenta flare, really low hi-iso  noise, fast shooting speed, great af, weather sealed,  )........ it would be very tempting for many people to have similar features in a mf bodywith the canon simplicity and experience.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80447\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Canon would be able to make a 1DsII with 16 bits - I wish they did.

Edmund
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BJL
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2006, 09:50:48 AM »
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...and Kodak and Samsung...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
... and Panasonic and Fuji also make their own digicam and SLR sensors, and Nikon makes some of its SLR sensors (D2Hs) as well as being actively involved with Sony in the design of sensors for its SLR's.

Not that I buy this idea that partnerships between camera makers and sensor making electronics companies are at any significant disadvantgage to in-house operations: even Canon is happy to buy the great majority of its sensors from suppliers like Sony (tens of millions each year, for digicams.)


A useful increase in sensor size would require a new lens series, and to justify that huge R&D expense, the size increase would have to be at least a doubling of sensor area ("one stop"), to a size similar to the 33x44mm that is the smaller of the two current "digital medium format" options. It just does not seem that Canon, or any former 35mm film SLR maker, is looking in that direction at all. With total digital MF sales at only 10,000/year and so probably grossing less than any individual Canon DSLR, why bother?
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