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Author Topic: NEWS FROM THE FRONTLINES!!!  (Read 8397 times)
eronald
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2006, 05:28:01 PM »
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BTW here you can see the classic problem not having a spot focus option!
this 100% crop of th P25 image

BTW right out of C1 with only 35% (or whatever that number is !) sharpening. nothing else
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81431\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Victor -

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
william
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2006, 08:00:30 PM »
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I just got my Contax 645/P30 setup up and running and used it for the first time on a (paid) shoot a couple of days ago.  I could have shot it with my Canon, but what the heck, the P30 and all the Contax gear arrived in time for the shoot, I had my assistant shooting the 5D for backup, and I like to live dangerously.  :-)

Just to add to Victor's thoughts: the AF on the Cntax is nowhere near as fast as a DSLR, but it doesn't suck as much as I remembered from when I owned a Contax 645 before.  It actually hunted very little, and this was at nightime in a studio where the only light was from the strobes' modeling lights (250W).

I also noticed that the 2CR5 battery lasted longer than I'd remembered; probably, as Victor mentioned, because it's no longer winding film.

All in all, I'm very very happy with this setup.  I'll write up my findings at more length soon, but suffice it to say that the P30 worked very smoothly (even including the 2 times I stepped on the FW cord and yanked it out of the camera), and the file quality is excellent.  Who knows how the the Aptus would have compared, but, objectively, the P30 is superb IMO.  

Oh, and as Victor said, the hard case it all ships in is quite nice, which is a nice bonus.

BTW, here's a quick (retouched) JPEG from the shoot.




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The Contax uses 2CR5 batteries, i never looked at rechargeables. In my use I get at least 500-600 shots. Less if you use a lot of AF hunting. (I use AF maybe 70%, even though I often over ride, which is easy to do for select focus)

The issue with battery drain that people mention (as few as 200-300 shots ) was likely due to the winder drain-a non issue with a back!

The AF? let's see, I think the technical term is 'sucks' in low light   

But it needs to be pretty dark

Also, I use flash (380) and it is really good for both fill and low light. Powerful enough you can stop down to get better DOF, then focus not so critical. Used at  NY wedding last year no problem with lights lower for dancing (and once in a tent!)

But it ain't nuthin' to write home about. Itis why we all looked for a MARK II for the Contax.

When I kow its going to be dark and I must use ambient light I use the Leica.

Hope it helps.

BTW here's an out-take, soft flash using AF (you can lower ambient behind, low, not dark) sort of got it.. (color wrong due to $%$#$% sRGB conversion in PS   

Regards
Victor
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 08:05:07 PM by william » Logged
vgogolak
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2006, 09:50:17 PM »
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Dear William

very nice shot!. Skin tone is really nice. It reallyputs to bed the 'sterile' idea of Phase backs.

On theContax, I did take some license - not fair to ask AF to read your mind  

I should have checked (given that I wanted the bride in focus) but these are fast situations and I just got laze

edmund, dont read as negative on Contax!

also if you notice even with an old P25 with 1/60 flash you get pretty sharp shots!

(of course, Iam not into count skin pores.)

Overall I like the system too (and many just forget how easy it is to manually adjust focus. At half shutter, just MOVE IT! it stay and will nail the shot for you.

Wiliam, enjoy enjoy

Victor
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nicolaasdb
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2006, 10:40:40 PM »
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BTW here you can see the classic problem not having a spot focus option!
this 100% crop of th P25 image

BTW right out of C1 with only 35% (or whatever that number is !) sharpening. nothing else
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81431\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Your sample images is exactly why I did not go for Phase....it is way tooo sharp for my....look a the guys skin!! Colors are nice.....but I love the film like feel that leaf backs give me!!
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khwanaon
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2006, 11:34:16 PM »
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Your sample images is exactly why I did not go for Phase....it is way tooo sharp for my....look a the guys skin!! Colors are nice.....but I love the film like feel that leaf backs give me!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


definitively over-sharpened skin, typical to Phase. Same reason why I did not go for it, but instead Sinarback

Aon
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savagegibson
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2006, 11:54:14 PM »
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I call Leaf and Rick tells me to send it in and he will have it back to me by Friday.  That is fine and dandy if I wasn't on set in the middle of a shot.  Luckily I brought my Canon's.  I am not in some third tier market.  I am in South Florida!  He cannot get me one overnight and told me to call my dealer.  I don't have a dealer and bought it on eBay new with the clearence from the local rep that I would have full support from Leaf. I cannot believe this is the kind of support you get with a $30k investment!
 
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I don't mean to beat someone when they are down, but it you paid $30,000 then you paid list price, and if you paid list price why would you go to ebay instead of a real dealer? I've had a couple of times that I've needed help with my Aptus and Steve Hendrix and Rick have really helped me out. I know that I feel great knowing that there is a team of people willing to help me when I need it.

I just don't understand why you went to ebay.

Finally, the support I have gotten from these guys has gone way beyond whatever they were contractually required to do to help me. I can't say enough about how important it is to deal with a reputable dealer when you're buying high cost, bleeding edge technology like this.
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eronald
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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2006, 05:21:49 AM »
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Your sample images is exactly why I did not go for Phase....it is way tooo sharp for my....look a the guys skin!! Colors are nice.....but I love the film like feel that leaf backs give me!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've been playing with sample files this week - add 1.5 or 2% gaussian monochromatic noise to a Phase file and Bingo ! film look.

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
william
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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2006, 06:53:47 AM »
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I think you guys are missing something important here -- he said he's applying sharepning in C1.  If you're judging whether skin tone are "too" sharp from the back, you need to assess it straight out of the camera, not with an individual shooter's sharpening already applied.

I use NO sharpening in C1 (or any other raw converter, for that matter).  My portrait sample above also isn't really good to judge "inherent sharpness" from either, because it's been thru post-production.  Later today, I'll post a crop of the TIFF straight out of C1.  But trust me, the skin tones, WITHOUT any sharpening in C1, don't look "too sharp" or "crunchy" to me eye, but look quite natural.

The Leaf may be better; I don't know because I don't have one.  My point is only that unsharpened P30 files, in my experience, have good skin tone.

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Your sample images is exactly why I did not go for Phase....it is way tooo sharp for my....look a the guys skin!! Colors are nice.....but I love the film like feel that leaf backs give me!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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vgogolak
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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2006, 09:03:18 AM »
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William
you are right
At times I get lazy and leave C1 34%in (I just put in a new C1 and it defaults.I need to set my preferences, actually doe.I too use NO sharpening and NO noise reduction in my workflow)
Thewhole idea of film like reminds me of cine. The 24 frame and those pulldowns etc, drive me crazy. THOSE WERE LIMITATIONS OF THE TECHNOLOGY.Now they are features !

Same with film. De facto, film has some parts of image in less focus due to the film thickness. Also, biggest effect is the inherent 'dither' of film, that is, grain is random.

Maybe best sensors will be with dithering. Already inkjet needed dither to make it better for the eye.
Maybe Leaf is random pixels ? I dont thin so.
With no sharpening and all sensor sites i a plane, the focus will be sharp as image. Even with film you needed soft filtersfor portraits (or I am THATold??  

Anyway, Laef and Phase can have PP, noise etc differences, but no way, unless it has random siting and thickness will a Leaf/dalsa sensor be much different from Phase/kodak

and yes, a few percent gaussian noise goes a long way

(though that one I showed needed an air brush!    

But reember it was flash, and even with diffuser, can be pretty harsh on skin
you can air brush the real world, but you can't put back detail that the sensor missed.

That's why why I went Phase.

here is the no nuthindone, tiff file[WELL, it wont let me post the tiff, so here is a lvl 10 jpg] looks the same

Victor
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 09:23:43 AM by vgogolak » Logged
Eric Zepeda
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2006, 09:37:40 AM »
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Unless Phase has changed it in their latest release, you have to disable sharpening in the Focus tool by checking the disable box. If you just slide the slider to zero some sharpening is still applied.

I think James Russell was right in saying it takes many hours of working with a DB to get the look that is right for you. I think both Phase and Leaf are good products that provide a solid base to refine on. I have a P25 and love what it does for me in Architecture/Interior. I just worked with an A75 yesterday on a fashion/product shoot and love the look of the files almost straight out of the back.
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vgogolak
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« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2006, 12:06:02 PM »
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Unless Phase has changed it in their latest release, you have to disable sharpening in the Focus tool by checking the disable box. If you just slide the slider to zero some sharpening is still applied.
You can globallydisablein 'preferences'
then sharpening and noise are 'greyed' out in the focus tab

the image above was processed that way NO added processing beyond raw conversion.
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RicAgu
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« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2006, 04:48:16 PM »
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I don't pay retail and never have.  $30k is retail and what it lists for.  Some people read way too much into these forums.

I was in the market for an A75 earlier this year when they first came out.  There happen to be one on eBay.  What had happened was the guy bought the A22 with the free upgrade to the A75 when they came out.  That person could not afford to keep it and by the time the A75 came in he was ready to sell it, at a discount with no waiting.  He was in the NYC area and we met up and I jumped on it.  It was for real and with no worries as my Local Leaf rep was 100% behind the deal.  He was also the one who made me go for it because he loaned me his A75 on three occassions.

I never said anything negative about Rick, but they did leave me hanging as they don't have any to send out.  He took my call and within minutes was giving me an RMA #.  On set that is useless.  There seems to be a lot of people on here that can afford to have their back ship away for a couple of days.  But I do not have that luxury and even less so on location with a client and a crew of 20 looking at you for answers.

Like someone else on this forum I do not do business with some retailers.  From what I have read here about Steve Hendrix and PPR he/they seem great, I just don't know him and he doesn't know me.  I use B&H, K&M, Drive In and Shoot Digital on the East and on the West Samy's, Smashbox and Quixote.  That is it!  I would rather spend the rest of my career shooting with a Holga than to give a dollar to Calumet or Jeff Hirsch's Fotocare.

I look to my manufacturer to support a $30k (RETAIL) product.  Not my dealer!  I have spent yearsd buying from B&H and knowing that I walk out with it and I am on my own.

For the past 10 years I have had Pentax 67, Contax 645 and Mamiya RZ 67.  You always carried a second body on Mamiya and Contax and I always carried seven Pentax 67 bodies.  The makers  never heard from me.  Maybe once a year to Mamiya and Contax for repair and that was usually just to let them know it was on the way for repair.  Pentax every three years or so for the winding crank if I used too much 220.

My point was,  with Phase you don't need dealer support and with Leaf you do.  I prefer to go to one place and that is it.  I had my P25 overnighted down and resumed the next morning.  I have an RMA from Leaf and will send it out to them for repair.

I am certainly switching to Rollei with the Hy6 hopefully sooner than later and will most likely be selling the Aptus 75 and Phase One P25 and getting a P45+ and P30+ as a back up and higher ISO shooter.

So I will have two 1Ds MII's with RRS RA plates and a 28-70, 50mm and 85mm, four batteries, hoodman protectors and angled diopter viewer, two 580ex's wih quantum cables, Epson Viewer P4000, all with caps, straps and manuals for sale in the new year.  

As well as two complete H1's with a CF adapter, 50-110, 80, 100, 120, 150, four film backs, a polaroid back, an Aptus 75 with five batteries and charger and a Phase One P25 with five batteries and charger.  All with Really Right Stuff right angled tripod plates.

The Rollei seems like it will be my dream system.  Don't think I could ask for much more, except maybe that the back rotates on the body and a 45 degree prism.  But in due time.

 



Quote
I don't mean to beat someone when they are down, but it you paid $30,000 then you paid list price, and if you paid list price why would you go to ebay instead of a real dealer? I've had a couple of times that I've needed help with my Aptus and Steve Hendrix and Rick have really helped me out. I know that I feel great knowing that there is a team of people willing to help me when I need it.

I just don't understand why you went to ebay.

Finally, the support I have gotten from these guys has gone way beyond whatever they were contractually required to do to help me. I can't say enough about how important it is to deal with a reputable dealer when you're buying high cost, bleeding edge technology like this.
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