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Author Topic: ipf5000 output quality  (Read 13931 times)
BradH
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« on: October 20, 2006, 12:52:57 PM »
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Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

InkJetArt link

I also went to the local store and had them print a few my own photos, and I can clearly see grain that I don't see on my Epson prints.

Yet, Michael says there is none after doing a head-alignment.  Although in the InkJetArt review they said they had done a head-alignment.

What are you ipf5000 owners seeing?


I'm sick of Epson clogging problems, and would like to change brands, but I'm concerned about the Canon output.  I've ruled out HP because of their ridiculously high ink costs of the 9810.
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BradH
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 12:58:21 PM »
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And i'm not talking about looking at it with a magnifying glass or anything.  I'm talking about viewing a couple of feet away.
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michael
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 01:16:46 PM »
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No dots. iPF5000 image quality is every bit as good in this regard as that from the Epson 4800.

The Inkjetart review is old news.

Michael
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Archimago
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 01:53:11 PM »
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Hi,

I am new to this forum and have been following some threads for a couple of weeks.

I am an architect, doing visualisations. I have used since 1998 an Epson Stylus Pro 5000, which died on me 3 weeks ago.

I was planning to replace the machine next year, since it died I will replace it a bit earlier.

As many of you I am looking at about 4 to 7 possible replacements:


A3+ sizes
1. Epson 3800
2. HP 9180

A2  sizes
3. Epson 4800
4. Canon IPF5000

A1 sizes
5. Epson 7800
6. HP Z2100 24 inch
7. HP Z3100 24 inch

For my budget I think A2 sizes are what I can afford, only A1 maybe I could afford is the HP Z2100.

Concerning the Epson 4800/7800 the Black ink problem is a major issue to me as I often swith from matte paper to glossy. I need both in one printer. Adding the Imageprint RIP is to cost expensive compared to going for othe rmachines.

However I was always very pleased about the output quality of Epson machines despite paperhandling problems, poor drivers, controller errors, print head problems. The final prints I needed where always very good, I also did larger prints on Epson 9800 outside of my office mostly on matte papers.



To me for my budget only 3 options seem available:


1. Canon IPF 5000

I am very seduced by the Canon IPF5000, but ....

Are the images really up to par in sharpness, color, saturation, etc... to the Epson 4800 ?

Are the standard papers from Canon also good Huh


2. Epson 3800

If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.

Will the Epson 3800 be better in quality then the 4800 or is this just marketing hype by Epson Huh


3. HP Z2100

The other option would be the HP Z2100 24 inch standard version.

Advantage would be larger size, however I am very weary of print quality, why ?

I have test prints from HP 130 and 90 and they are not up to par even with my Epson 5000 in some areas, oversaturated blues etc...


What would you do Huh

Still I like the Canon ?

What would you buy:
Epson 3800, Canon IPF5000 or HP Z2100

Christophe from Belgium
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SKinsey
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 04:25:38 PM »
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To my eyes .. no dots and very smooth tonal transitions.  

I've just recently (this week) purchased the IPF5000 and in the process of doing some testing.  So far I am extremely pleased with the output.  As far as the head alignment story, Canon must have listened to someone as it was part of the automated installation proceedure with my machine.

The user interface is a little confusing at times and having to set paper types twice is a little of a bother, however the images I'm producing are no less than I would expect from a "Canon" product.

The bottom line is that I decided on this printer because 1) no fussing with changing photo and matte black inks, 2) the 12 ink system - I'm not seeing my shadows block up any more, and 3) since I am not an everyday printer, I hate dealing with clogs, I was looking for a printer that could sit for a while and not throw a fit, but we'll have to see about that as I've been testing every day so far.

One thing I did see today was some bronzing on some Ilford Smooth Pearl, but it's not a big concern to me as I generally print my B/W's on matte papers.

Good luck
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Gary Damaskos
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 04:55:04 PM »
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Had the iPF5000 since June. At that time is was difficult for me to acquire Canon papers, so I just used Epsons. That as been no problem that I can recongnize. The gamuts are sooo much wider than even the old SC3000 with dye inks in it that I feel blessed. In fact I have to be careful about cranking up the color and saturation too much - because the printer can handle it. Most of the use issues seem actually minor and in the category of 'getting a new complex whatever' that forces me to learn some new protocols, when once learned - no real problem, at worst annoyance. Some people on the list have had some real problems with annoyances I have noticed, so I guess they will stay with Epson or move to HP (like that will perfect - not likely).  As you must realize going from glossy to matte can be done literally instantaneously. Very much appreciated. I do feel those who do not create their own profiles, that generally the supplied profiles are likely to very satsifactory to the majority of users, and then there will be those that go ballistic who really should buy an HP or a profile creator I suspect. In summary - this has been a great 4 months with this printer. I have left it off for up to maybe a week ( I hope not, but may have) and though I do not yet know how much ink clearing takes, I do know that I have only replaced 2 cartridges so far, and I have done a lot of 16x20 and 8x10s, from my subjective view, it is pretty good on ink use - which others have reported also as good. And no I cannot see dots, do not understand what they did to come up with that - other than feed the printer a file from a scan or picture that was tuned for say matte/art paper and then printed it on gloss and voila - so much more detail shows they think the "grain" is the printer when it is indeed the file used. I have experienced exactly that and when I either rescanned or cleaned up the file, the print from the Canon was as smooth as I imagine it ever needs to be. Good luck in any case with your process.
Gary

quote=Archimago,Oct 20 2006, 11:53 AM]
Hi,

I am new to this forum and have been following some threads for a couple of weeks.

I am an architect, doing visualisations. I have used since 1998 an Epson Stylus Pro 5000, which died on me 3 weeks ago.

I was planning to replace the machine next year, since it died I will replace it a bit earlier.

As many of you I am looking at about 4 to 7 possible replacements:
A3+ sizes
1. Epson 3800
2. HP 9180

A2  sizes
3. Epson 4800
4. Canon IPF5000

A1 sizes
5. Epson 7800
6. HP Z2100 24 inch
7. HP Z3100 24 inch

For my budget I think A2 sizes are what I can afford, only A1 maybe I could afford is the HP Z2100.

Concerning the Epson 4800/7800 the Black ink problem is a major issue to me as I often swith from matte paper to glossy. I need both in one printer. Adding the Imageprint RIP is to cost expensive compared to going for othe rmachines.

However I was always very pleased about the output quality of Epson machines despite paperhandling problems, poor drivers, controller errors, print head problems. The final prints I needed where always very good, I also did larger prints on Epson 9800 outside of my office mostly on matte papers.
To me for my budget only 3 options seem available:
1. Canon IPF 5000

I am very seduced by the Canon IPF5000, but ....

Are the images really up to par in sharpness, color, saturation, etc... to the Epson 4800 ?

Are the standard papers from Canon also good Huh
2. Epson 3800

If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.

Will the Epson 3800 be better in quality then the 4800 or is this just marketing hype by Epson Huh
3. HP Z2100

The other option would be the HP Z2100 24 inch standard version.

Advantage would be larger size, however I am very weary of print quality, why ?

I have test prints from HP 130 and 90 and they are not up to par even with my Epson 5000 in some areas, oversaturated blues etc...
What would you do Huh

Still I like the Canon ?

What would you buy:
Epson 3800, Canon IPF5000 or HP Z2100

Christophe from Belgium
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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rmarien
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 05:31:40 PM »
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I have had the ipf 5000 since July. I use it to print 10-20 prints a week, often going 4-5 days between sessions. The ability to switch between matte and glossy, pearl at will has been great. It allows you to pick the best paper for the given picture and to try out different papers one after the other.

I have not seen any dots. The output has been superb using the supplied profiles on canon paper and with the ilford profiles on smooth pearl.

Bob
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jclacherty
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2006, 12:52:18 AM »
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Quote
If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option.

Justin.
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Archimago
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2006, 02:29:54 AM »
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--- The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option. ---

You are right, however I find it nice to print easily longer then A2 with a roll.

BTW 17inch by 22 inch is shorter then A2 which I find annoying. Meaning I have to use self precut sheets on the epson 3800 if I need exactly A2, which I often do.

Thanks everyone for your feedback

I am more an more leaning to the Canon IPF5000, instead of the epson 3800 or 4800 for a couple of reasons just one more questions.

Which RIP software currently already supports the Canon ?

Christophe
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neil snape
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2006, 02:46:57 AM »
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One advantage of the Z printers is the ability to add the HPGL2 CAD upgrade which let's you use the printer in both CAD apps, and photographic, and prepress printing all with the same printer.
The Canon is not as good at CAD printing as the HP.
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wilsonrob
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 05:15:02 AM »
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Quote
--- The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option. ---

You are right, however I find it nice to print easily longer then A2 with a roll.

BTW 17inch by 22 inch is shorter then A2 which I find annoying. Meaning I have to use self precut sheets on the epson 3800 if I need exactly A2, which I often do.

Christophe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The 3800 will print to 37 inchesif you use a custompaper size. The Japanese version states that it will print A2 borderless.  As for longer than the 37 inches which EPSON has stated, we will need to see if there is a banner or roll setting in the driver. My R800 has a roll setting despite not having a roll feeder or a rear slot for long paper.

If there is such a setting then QIMAGE will print to any length of cut paper.

I am thinking of getting the 3800 because I do not have the room for either the 4800 or the Canon.
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Archimago
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 06:57:39 AM »
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Quote
One advantage of the Z printers is the ability to add the HPGL2 CAD upgrade which let's you use the printer in both CAD apps, and photographic, and prepress printing all with the same printer.
The Canon is not as good at CAD printing as the HP.
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Archimago
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2006, 07:10:39 AM »
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Yeah I know that the HP has the HPGL2 option, and I looked at that.

However I have an OCE 5250 as my main colour-CAD printer A0 whith HPGL2 support, good machine for a CAD printer, and good speed for an inkjet, compared to more expensive B&W lasers from OCE.

I would like to use the Canon or Epson also as a printer for showing clients predesigns before going to a larger scale. I did that with my Espon 5000 and although the machine had no HPGL2, I still could make good prints for that purpose out of Autodesk Architectural Desktop without a problem, using the standard windows driver.

I expect that to be possible wih the Canon and any Epson, unless someone else says differently ?
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ericaro
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2006, 01:30:12 PM »
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Have been using IPF 5000 for 2 months .NO grain whatsoever( I have no clue what the inkjet art poeple were looking at) and the output is suberb on the papers I use: han rag, entrada natural,han pearl, museo silver rag. Just stunning!
                         Louis Bouillon
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K.C.
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2006, 07:00:14 PM »
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Quote
I have no clue what the inkjet art poeple were looking at…

If you read their site it's pretty clear that they're more interested in selling Epson printers.
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David White
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2006, 12:21:22 AM »
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I've been an owner since late June.  No dots, no clogging and no switching ink when switching papers.  I've been making my own profiles and they are definitely larger than the supplied profiles.  It makes beautiful prints.  I never even think about the interface anymore.  The ability to switch seamlessly between the roll feeder is a real plus since I use both interchangeably.
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David White
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2006, 01:50:15 AM »
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Quote
Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

InkJetArt link

I also went to the local store and had them print a few my own photos, and I can clearly see grain that I don't see on my Epson prints.

Yet, Michael says there is none after doing a head-alignment.  Although in the InkJetArt review they said they had done a head-alignment.

What are you ipf5000 owners seeing?
I'm sick of Epson clogging problems, and would like to change brands, but I'm concerned about the Canon output.  I've ruled out HP because of their ridiculously high ink costs of the 9810.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81378\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[QUOT

Hi
We are using the Canon iPF5000 with a Quato monitor and are loving it. we just did some B&W prints for a friend today and it was easy. Great printer!!!!!
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2006, 05:24:20 AM »
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Have anyone compared a print from a 2200 with IP to the iPF5000 ?
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tbonanno
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2006, 07:00:42 PM »
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Quote from: BradH,Oct 20 2006, 11:52 AM
Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

Brad,

I've been using the 5000 since Aug 2nd.  Everything that other posters mention in this thread seem to be on target.  I've gone through 4 "starter" ink cartridges so far, which seems to be reasonably economical ink usage considering how much I've been printing.  NO clogs whatsoever.   I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks on assignment, but I would bet money that when I return to the studio, the printer will crank out prints with no need for nozzle cleanings or anything else..  No way could I say that about any Epson I've had.

Regarding the dots.  Under "magnification", there appears to be a "grainier" dithering pattern with the iPF5000 compared to the Epsons and I suspect that is what some of the pixel peepers are referring to.  To be honest, if I blow up my files to 100% on a 21" screen, what I see on the screen appears to be closer to the Canon output than the Epson output.  It's almost as if the Epson "smooths" the transitions somewhat.  

Anyway, unless you using using stacked pairs of reading glasses at 8 inches, I don't think you'll have any complaints about "graininess".

Tony Bonanno
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Tony Bonanno Photography
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Dale Allyn
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2006, 10:53:12 PM »
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Hello,

I've enjoyed reading here in this forum for a long time, and finally registered so I could post. I really appreciate the flow of information in this forum and appreciate everyone returning to report their updated findings.

Quote
but I would bet money that when I return to the studio, the printer will crank out prints with no need for nozzle cleanings or anything else.. 

Tony Bonanno
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tony: it would be VERY helpful to hear of your experience upon returning to your studio regarding clogging. I travel outside the U.S. (I live in the U.S.) for extended periods and am hoping that the iPF 5000 will handle the clogging much better than Epsons. I can have someone print a page now and then, but this is not always convenient, as you probably know.

The "dots" issue, or lack of apparent continuous tone, has been troubling to me and I'm glad to hear that with proper workflow this may not be a real issue. I'm looking at adding the Canon iPF 5000, but I'm also looking at the HP 9180 + one of the Z series model. My thinking is that I can get by with the 5000 while the Z3100 is being refined, or I learn that the z2100 is right for me. I've ordered sample prints from HP, but have never received them. Waiting for HP to look in to it.

This is a frustrating time to be buying printers because so many (possibly) great options are just on the horizon. Epson's clogging and ink swapping is a deal breaker for me, but HP and Canon seem to be raising the bar which will certainly push Epson too.

Tony, please do post back when you return to your printer after your trip. It would be so very helpful to learn from your experience.

Regards, Dale
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 02:24:08 AM by DFAllyn » Logged

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