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Author Topic: Z2100 sample prints  (Read 4818 times)
ronno
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« on: October 24, 2006, 02:00:36 PM »
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I just got a pack of HP sample prints in the mail. The one from the Z2100 is a 11.5 x 14.7" photo of a woman in a bathing suit,  shot with a Phase one P25 on an H1 or H2 with 80mm lens.

The skin tone looks good, but there are some issues.
For some reason the print looks grainy -- not sure if it's the P25 at ISO 200 which produces the look of grain, or maybe it's the printer or it's settings.
Also, much of the shadow areas look purple/magenta.

Lastly, the print could be a tad sharper overall.

Other than these things, the print looks very photographic and fairly impressive.

Aside from Neil, has anyone here actually bought the printer and made their own prints?

-ron
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ronno
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2006, 10:08:39 AM »
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Comparing the z2100 sample print today with recent Epson prints and some digital C prints from a machine, the HP prints are no better. In fact the Epson 7800 print looks far superior in terms of color, contrast and sharpness. (Of course these differences could be due to better calibration, RIP, or any number of issues...)
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Tim Ernst
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2006, 11:41:51 AM »
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The sample prints I got after a long wait looked about the same as my Epson 4800 prints, nothing special (had some bronzing and gloss diff). Although the one 3100 print on the new HP satin paper (that is not available to the public yet) did look pretty nice - not sure if it was due to the paper or the printer. Since the new satin paper does not have the cheap HP logo on the back that might be a very nice paper when it becomes available...

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
http://www.Cloudland.net
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haefnerphoto
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 01:11:12 PM »
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I received two Z3100 prints, a B/W image of rocks and water and a colorful strobe shot of flowers and a water splash.  They were printed on the satin paper and both looked great!  The B/W image had just the slightest hint of bronzing in the deepest blacks but is very neutral.  The color image is vibrant and sharp, just as it should be. I have been printing for last few years with a 9900 and now 9000 because of the gloss differentials, scuffing, slow speeds and what have you that occurred with my 2200, I see that pigmented inksets have come a long way!
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ronno
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 03:14:00 PM »
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I just got a 16x24" print from the Canon ipf5000 (from my own image file), and it's pretty amazing.
Colors look very realistic, sharp, shadows are deep without blocking up, and there is no color cast in shadows that I can see.

I also dumped a bit of water on both the HP and the Canon prints as an experiment, and each cleaned up without any smearing at all.

-ron
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 05:09:34 PM by ronno » Logged
Tim Ernst
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 04:34:29 PM »
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Ron:

With the new HP printers not being all that exciting I am looking more closely at the new Canon's - where did you get your print made? For me the only real test is to print the same file on different printers for a head-to-head comparison, but it would be nice if I could see my print and do the test before I purchased the printer. Any info would be most appreciated.

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
http://www.Cloudland.net
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ronno
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 05:08:55 PM »
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Ron:

With the new HP printers not being all that exciting I am looking more closely at the new Canon's - where did you get your print made? For me the only real test is to print the same file on different printers for a head-to-head comparison, but it would be nice if I could see my print and do the test before I purchased the printer. Any info would be most appreciated.

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
http://www.Cloudland.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82274\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Fotocare here in NYC has a ipf5000 set up for testing.
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Tim Ernst
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 05:48:42 PM »
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Thanks, Ron. I will see if they will be able to get a print done for me. Any word on the 24" version of the Canon printer? The 17" is too small, the 44" is too large, but the 24" would be just right...
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neil snape
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2006, 02:37:22 AM »
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I just got a pack of HP sample prints in the mail. The one from the Z2100 is a 11.5 x 14.7" photo of a woman in a bathing suit,  shot with a Phase one P25 on an H1 or H2 with 80mm lens.

The skin tone looks good, but there are some issues.
For some reason the print looks grainy -- not sure if it's the P25 at ISO 200 which produces the look of grain, or maybe it's the printer or it's settings.
Also, much of the shadow areas look purple/magenta.

Lastly, the print could be a tad sharper overall.

Other than these things, the print looks very photographic and fairly impressive.

Aside from Neil, has anyone here actually bought the printer and made their own prints?

-ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82031\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't have a 2100 but a 3100. The 9180 is close enough to a 2100 as it's inkset is the same.
I didn't shoot the bathing suit pic but know it quite well. In blind tests Epson shows this one with pleasing color , more contrast and depth. Problem is it's NOT in the original. The original matches on screen and on the HP exactly as the original, even with it's purplish shadows. The brown in the original is desaturated and not yellow red. The Epson prints of the same change the colors. This may or may not be due to only profiles, but the driver also has a contrast building , which moves colours about. This same boosting of contrast is a bit harsh on detail. Personally , a bit less driver contrast would do favours for Epson's detail graduations, as currently too many levels are dropped. RIPs are excluded from these observations of course.
The 9180 is slightly sharper when on Maximum detail but on larger prints not really worth the difference in print time.
If there is grain in the image it should be reproduced. Digital images are more noise but still if it's there it should be printed. I can't say for sure if what you're seeing is in the original or not, but I don't see the Z printers as grainy.
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neil snape
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2006, 02:42:42 AM »
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I just got a 16x24" print from the Canon ipf5000 (from my own image file), and it's pretty amazing.
Colors look very realistic, sharp, shadows are deep without blocking up, and there is no color cast in shadows that I can see.

I also dumped a bit of water on both the HP and the Canon prints as an experiment, and each cleaned up without any smearing at all.

-ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Canon ink set has some ranges of colours that exceed HP 12 ink and Epson K3 , the HP others that exceed all too. But the depth of colour on the HP and Canon is almost the same, the Epson has more depth than either.
So your image printed on an HP Z3100 Z2100 also should equal the Canon 12 ink in depth.
The Canon is about the same in sharpness too, yet I see a lot of gloss uniformity on the Canon on both satin and glossy.

IF you come to PPE bring your images and print them on the Z 3100. That'll make a fair comparison except the fact that the 3100 is still changing the colour maps for the better.
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ronno
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2006, 08:03:18 AM »
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Thanks for the info Neil.
The only area which looks grainy to me in the bathing suit shot is the blue sky area. The rest is fine on terms of "grain."
By the way though, I did significant gloss differential on the z2100 print when viewed from the side.

Also Neil, what is your relationship with HP? Are you just a tester? Employee? Do you get free stuff? Must you speak highly of their products?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 08:25:57 AM by ronno » Logged
ronno
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 06:55:10 PM »
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I just got the z3100 sample shot with the rocks. It looks very neutral with no noticable metamerism. However, it is not particularly sharp. Looks a little soft actually.
While looking very photographic, the print does not apper to be any better looking than what I see coming out of the current Epsons.

However, if the HP does, in fact, never clog and it wasted no ink, it may be worth purchasing despite the premium purchase price.

All I.M.O.

-ron
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ronno
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2006, 02:31:37 PM »
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Also Neil, what is your relationship with HP? Are you just a tester? Employee? Do you get free stuff? Must you speak highly of their products?

Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82654\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Any response Neil?
Just curious.
Thanks.
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neil snape
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2006, 05:10:34 AM »
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Any response Neil?
Just curious.
Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84547\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm a full time pro photog in Paris. I do love these technologies and have worked with quite a few products and software on the market today as a consultant with a photographers point of view.
HP opened their arms, hearts and ears some years ago to photographers. Many of them still work with Epson!  What better way than learning from others.
I do get to test a lot of stuff yes. It takes enormous amounts of time. It can also be frustrating with each change in firmware for example all previous calls on profiles etc are lost. It does however give me the chance to at least know intimately some of the newest technologies on or in the market.
My engineering background has become a new old friend helping knit close connections to eng. while consulting , and photography helping the eng. depts get closer to us.
I do speak positively on all aspects that are and deserve notation. I also speak on many forums about problems , problem solving, and even about other products which I don't actually have but do have access to.
It's the best year in printers to date, and all three biggies are turning up the level of exciting products.
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picnic
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2006, 05:58:25 AM »
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It's the best year in printers to date, and all three biggies are turning up the level of exciting products.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And its made it more difficult for those of us upgrading LOL.  How terrific, though, to actually have choices.

Diane
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