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Author Topic: Lightroom/Photoshop Color Management Issue  (Read 10118 times)
larkvi
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« on: November 04, 2006, 03:25:39 PM »
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I was wondering if someone could tell me what my issue is here:

I have been using lightroom to do RAW development on my photos, sending them to Photoshop and continuing to edit them in the ProPhoto workspace. Just before I make JPEGs out of them, I convert to sRGB, using perceptual conversion (though I have used relative colormetric and had the same results). When I open the Save for Web dialog, the preview (and the resulting image) has thoroughly washed-out colors, which I cannot seem to fix, even by boosting saturation significantly. As I never had this problem before I incorporated Lightroom into my workflow (though I was already using ProPhoto as my color-space), I am wondering if I am doing something with Lightroom that is leading to this peculiar circumstance.

Were the jpegs appearing washed-out in a different program or on a different monitor, I would assume it was a problem with monitor profiles, but the image becomes visibly washed out in photoshop, laying right on top of the properly-saturated image, so I am rather confused.

I am using Lightroom Beta 4.1 (though I had the same problem before) and Photoshop CS1.
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Ian Lyons
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2006, 04:45:53 PM »
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Were the jpegs appearing washed-out in a different program or on a different monitor, I would assume it was a problem with monitor profiles, but the image becomes visibly washed out in photoshop, laying right on top of the properly-saturated image, so I am rather confused.


Just to the left of the save button in the Save for Web dialog you should see a triangle shaped button - click it, then choose "Use Document Color Profile"
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 04:46:25 PM by ilyons » Logged

larkvi
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 10:27:00 AM »
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Just to the left of the save button in the Save for Web dialog you should see a triangle shaped button - click it, then choose "Use Document Color Profile"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have been using Photoshop since 2.0, CS in particular for over a year, and I never noticed that there was a menu there or a setting that could be changed, which makes me feel very unobservant. I do not know how the setting was changed, but changing it back has indeed solved the problem--thanks.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2006, 04:04:28 PM »
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I never new this was there either - I tried it and got great results.

My question would be though - if you do use this setting 'Use Document Color Profile' what is it actually doing to the color space if its set as SRGB? Is it changing the profile or just compensating for the washed out color?
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Ian Lyons
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2006, 05:13:03 PM »
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I never new this was there either - I tried it and got great results.

My question would be though - if you do use this setting 'Use Document Color Profile' what is it actually doing to the color space if its set as SRGB? Is it changing the profile or just compensating for the washed out color?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84201\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's doing an on-the-fly conversion to the document profile so that the preview matches what you have in Photoshop.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2006, 09:22:12 PM »
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It's doing an on-the-fly conversion to the document profile so that the preview matches what you have in Photoshop

Sorry for the stupid question....

But are you saying it converts it to another color profile and not SRGB - assuming that SRGB is the color space you have converted to in photoshop before pushing 'Save for Web'?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 09:22:54 PM by JHolko » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2006, 08:26:33 AM »
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Photoshop looks at the document profile and the display profile to produce a preview.

IF the file is in sRGB, you're seeing a preview based on this and your display profile. But anyone else using a non ICC aware application like a browser doesn't have this functionality. The numbers in the sRGB document go directly to the display without the display profile or the application 'knowing' the file is in sRGB so the previews don't match what you see in Photoshop or other ICC aware applications. Unless you're real lucky.

BTW, when you convert to sRGB, doesn't matter if you use Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric. There's no table in matrix profiles for using anything but the Colorimetric intents. That's why you didn't see any difference.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
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Ian Lyons
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2006, 05:42:04 PM »
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Sorry for the stupid question....

But are you saying it converts it to another color profile and not SRGB - assuming that SRGB is the color space you have converted to in photoshop before pushing 'Save for Web'?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84250\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The on-the-fly conversion is from sRGB (or whatever colour space the image is in) to your monitor profile. That's also what happens in Photoshop itself.
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seanmcfoto
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2006, 07:54:05 PM »
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You know I've wondered about this for years. And now I know.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2006, 11:16:00 PM »
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The on-the-fly conversion is from sRGB (or whatever colour space the image is in) to your monitor profile. That's also what happens in Photoshop itself.

Ahh.. I see now - thank you very much indeed.

So assuming you select this option and make this conversion  from an SRGB image and then upload the image [which is now using your monitor profile] to a website - its NOT going to look the same on any one elses computer as its using your locally created profile instead of the SRGB color space.

Correct?

And if this is correct.. then it is surely a bad idea for any image to be uploaded to the web with this conversion. SRGB would be far safer to ensure consistent color.

Or Do I have it all wrong?
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opgr
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2006, 03:15:49 AM »
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Ahh.. I see now - thank you very much indeed.

So assuming you select this option and make this conversion  from an SRGB image and then upload the image [which is now using your monitor profile] to a website - its NOT going to look the same on any one elses computer as its using your locally created profile instead of the SRGB color space.

Correct?

And if this is correct.. then it is surely a bad idea for any image to be uploaded to the web with this conversion. SRGB would be far safer to ensure consistent color.

Or Do I have it all wrong?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The conversions mentioned in the menu are for previewing purposes only. It does not actually affect the image itself. The conversion choices in the menu are there because those are the different ways a browser may display your file.
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Regards,
Oscar Rysdyk
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maxgruzen
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2006, 01:26:47 PM »
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And to think I used to log on to DCR when I could have been going to school here. Learning is great fun.
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seanmcfoto
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2006, 08:13:40 PM »
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Just to the left of the save button in the Save for Web dialog you should see a triangle shaped button - click it, then choose "Use Document Color Profile"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is why I couldn't find where you said this. I thought it was on the Adobe forums.
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