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Author Topic: Aptus 75 centerfold issue still not solved  (Read 18190 times)
pixjohn
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« on: November 14, 2006, 01:01:38 AM »
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I thought I finally solved the centerfold issue with my 3rd Aptus 75 back. I tested the back on my cambo Wide DS and my first test looked clean.

I then shot a project on the new back thinking no centerfold issues, how wrong I was. I did not see the centerline on my 17in Macbook Pro on location, but. When I returned to process the files on my G5 with Sony artisan monitor I see the centerline. The difference from my test to the shoot was time exposure. I was shooting with a Schneider 47xl 4-6 sec exposures.

This is just a never ending issue.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 01:15:58 AM by pixjohn » Logged
eronald
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2006, 02:53:42 AM »
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I thought I finally solved the centerfold issue with my 3rd Aptus 75 back. I tested the back on my cambo Wide DS and my first test looked clean.

I then shot a project on the new back thinking no centerfold issues, how wrong I was. I did not see the centerline on my 17in Macbook Pro on location, but. When I returned to process the files on my G5 with Sony artisan monitor I see the centerline. The difference from my test to the shoot was time exposure. I was shooting with a Schneider 47xl 4-6 sec exposures.

This is just a never ending issue.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85081\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I cannot see it either on my 17" powerbook. I'll take your word that it's there, though - you're the customer whom Leaf has to satisfy.

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
AndrewDyer
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 03:04:23 AM »
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I cannot see it either on my 17" powerbook. I'll take your word that it's there, though - you're the customer whom Leaf has to satisfy.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is definintly there (you may need to calibrate your laptop Edmund).
Im really sorry you have that PixJohn. I have just ordered an Aptus 22... here's hoping the 22's remain free from this type of thing.
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andrewparker
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 03:49:34 AM »
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When I returned to process the files on my G5 with Sony artisan monitor I see the centerline. The difference from my test to the shoot was time exposure. I was shooting with a Schneider 47xl 4-6 sec exposures.


Dear Pixjohn,

Just a thought about this- the 47XL is a wide image circle lens designed for film not digital use.

Could that be a contributing factor in the artefacts you are seeing?

I don't use a digital back, but I don't expect this lens to be part of my kit when and if I do get one.

Andrew Parker

Blue Window Ltd
Surrey
UK
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eronald
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 04:03:12 AM »
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It is definintly there (you may need to calibrate your laptop Edmund).
Im really sorry you have that PixJohn. I have just ordered an Aptus 22... here's hoping the 22's remain free from this type of thing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85097\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yeah, I see it now. Laptops really aren't a good way to look at images.

Edmund
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Eric Zepeda
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 06:09:22 AM »
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Dear Pixjohn,

Just a thought about this- the 47XL is a wide image circle lens designed for film not digital use.

Could that be a contributing factor in the artefacts you are seeing?

I don't use a digital back, but I don't expect this lens to be part of my kit when and if I do get one.

Andrew Parker

Blue Window Ltd
Surrey
UK
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Schneider does make a 47xl digitar.
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pixjohn
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 09:36:55 AM »
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Its the 47xl Digitar.
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andrewparker
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2006, 10:58:38 AM »
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sorry!
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Caracalla
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM »
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Att: andrewparker

Schneider 47XL is optimized for Film & Digital

REGARDS
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Dustbak
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2006, 01:20:50 PM »
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Laptops are not perfect indeed however this one is so clear I can see it across the room on my 15" MBP!

Sorry to see this problem has come up again.
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GhostDancer
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2006, 04:00:18 PM »
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Yeah, I see it now. Laptops really aren't a good way to look at images.

Edmund
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Edmund,

OK, so you see it. How are you contributing to this problem?
Do you use of own a Leaf MFDB? Why are you so quick to jump in on Leaf defect discussions?

Dude, what is your agenda?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2006, 05:38:14 PM »
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Edmund,

OK, so you see it. How are you contributing to this problem?
Do you use of own a Leaf MFDB? Why are you so quick to jump in on Leaf defect discussions?

Dude, what is your agenda?
Inquiring minds want to know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85253\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey GhostDancer,

You seem stressed once more !   What back do you shoot with ?   Do you have a website where we can see your work ?   I really think you're taking life too seriously.  Everybody's entitled to an opinion aren't they ?   If you don't like a topic don't read it, I don't !

PeteStreet
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mkravit
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2006, 07:47:18 PM »
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Hey GhostDancer,

You seem stressed once more !   What back do you shoot with ?   Do you have a website where we can see your work ?   I really think you're taking life too seriously.  Everybody's entitled to an opinion aren't they ?   If you don't like a topic don't read it, I don't !

PeteStreet
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85286\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Don't know about GD but I have been there and had my share of MFDB issues. I can tell you from experience that Leaf is working very to resolve the issues. We are on the cutting edge of the technology and as such a year from now I think everything will be different.

I think everyone who is suffering through these issues is a bit stressed. I see no need to brand bashing or unhelpful comments.
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pixjohn
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2006, 11:47:41 PM »
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Leaf might be working through the issue, but does that mean I should have to work through their issues.  Does this mean they will give me the next generation back when they solve all the issue? Why should I pay for a $30,000 digital back and be a guinea pig.


I will say they do try to help, but its a never-ending circle.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 03:17:10 AM »
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Don't know about GD but I have been there and had my share of MFDB issues. I can tell you from experience that Leaf is working very to resolve the issues. We are on the cutting edge of the technology and as such a year from now I think everything will be different.

I think everyone who is suffering through these issues is a bit stressed. I see no need to brand bashing or unhelpful comments.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85311\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Michael,

I know you've had your problems with your back as I've read about them here on this forum. Actually it's thanks to this Forum that these problems are brought to the attention of photographers who are about to buy one of these backs or indeed to those that already have them and are discovering that other owners are suffering the same problems as themselves. If it wasn't for this forum, and eternal thanks to MR for it, would we have ever found out about all these quirks and drawbacks? I doubt it in my opinion. All the manufacturers should be more open and transparent in their products failings under certain shooting conditions.

If your back is now working 100% why is the fault still occurring on other peoples? Also I reckon if anyone is extolling the virtues of one back or another lets see what they shoot with theirs. I detect some hidden agendas going on here, for and against some products.  How can we take a poster seriously if we can't see their work?  

PeteStreet
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 04:09:51 AM by Streetshooter » Logged
Willow Photography
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 05:42:18 AM »
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Michael,

I know you've had your problems with your back as I've read about them here on this forum. Actually it's thanks to this Forum that these problems are brought to the attention of photographers who are about to buy one of these backs or indeed to those that already have them and are discovering that other owners are suffering the same problems as themselves. If it wasn't for this forum, and eternal thanks to MR for it, would we have ever found out about all these quirks and drawbacks? I doubt it in my opinion. All the manufacturers should be more open and transparent in their products failings under certain shooting conditions.

If your back is now working 100% why is the fault still occurring on other peoples? Also I reckon if anyone is extolling the virtues of one back or another lets see what they shoot with theirs. I detect some hidden agendas going on here, for and against some products.  How can we take a poster seriously if we can't see their work? 

PeteStreet
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I do not see any information about where I can see your work!?    

[a href=\"http://www.willow.no]willow.no[/url]
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Willow Photography
charles_m
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 07:58:58 AM »
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It is definintly there (you may need to calibrate your laptop Edmund).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85097\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I must say, this is a classic. The guy runs a website about monitor calibration, owns no medium format back, can't see the line on his monitor, but then still wants to comment here? Classic.
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awofinden
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 08:25:27 AM »
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I must say, this is a classic. The guy runs a website about monitor calibration, owns no medium format back, can't see the line on his monitor, but then still wants to comment here? Classic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85395\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't think this type of personal attack is constructive or appropriate.
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froesner
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2006, 08:30:41 AM »
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I do not post here very often, but I do follow medium format threads regularly - especially because I do own an Aptus 75. Actually I have my third replacement back now and I am still waiting to get one without defects.

And that is what it is: the centerline is a DEFECT as well as the colorcast is one. Because there are backs which do not show the centerline nor visible colorcast. as far as I know mkravit has received such a (replacement-) back - correct me if I am wrong.

So - logically - it MUST be a hardware / sensor problem and most likely it has to do with the lack of proper quality measures at Dalsa.

I do understand that those defects do not occur with all backs from Leaf and if they occur they do it in a different way for each individual back (that I know from my own testing of the three backs I got up to now).

What I also understand is that Leaf is trying quiet hard to solve thoe issues together with Dalsa.

But what I find hard to deal with is the communication policy of Leaf where at least in my case I get the feeling that I am the one who has to follow up, to ask again and again and to be greatful for Leaf's efforts to send me a back without defects "as soon as they can find one"

Frank
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James Russell
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 09:13:13 AM »
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But what I find hard to deal with is the communication policy of Leaf where at least in my case I get the feeling that I am the one who has to follow up, to ask again and again and to be greatful for Leaf's efforts to send me a back without defects "as soon as they can find one"

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85401\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If digtal capture has any issue, it's communication.  Hasselblad, Phase and Leaf seem hard pressed to get their message out to the actual users.  Sinar . . . well I don't know who owns Sinar and have seen so little real information on their product in the U.S. that it would be hard to consider it a viable brand.

Actually  dslr digtial is not much better. Does anyone really know if Canon will have a newer higher mp camera, will Nikon go full frame, will Pentax ever make their reported almost mf dslr, what is the deal with the Mamiya ZD and backs?  Even Leica is telling users to "wait two weeks" before they have a response.  I wonder if Lecia will wait two weeks before they cash the checks they received from the M-8?

All of these companies are very good with the positive message, showing glossy samples and talikinng about better workflows, higher iso, new software, but few really get to the actual use of the cameras and the response to issues.

Issues can be time consuming, costly and very frustrating.  Nothing is worse than calling a tech service rep and saying my ______ has a color cast issue and hear the response, "yea we've seen this before".  Actually I take that back it is more frustrating to hear, "We haven't seen that", only to read 20 reports of the same issue online.

The thing is I know all of these companies are working hard to make good product, but sometimes I wonder how they muddle their message.  I've also had issues with Leaf and though they were eventually worked out, it was a real chore for a few months.  Leaf is not alone as Phase as produced some boner software upgrades and even though the Hasselblad is a much improved product, the H3d I tested had very red previews on the lcd and in the software thumnails.

When I look at the blad pdfs the lcd previews look very neutral (insert big grin).  

I've written this dozen of times but all of the manufacturers would do themself a service by sitting next to a working photogrpaher for a full weeks project, from pre production to final delivery.

Watch a photographer reinstall software, test for issues and upload firmware while they try to answer 12 e-mails and take 3 phone calls.

Listen to the response from clients when you show a red lcd preview, or even a pixelated lcd preview and hear the photographer say "don't worry, it will look good on the computer".  Watch the computer previews come up 40pts. green, see the room gasp and then watch the digital tech start running through the series of wb options trying to fix it.

Then take it to the 10pm to 2pm shift where 60 selects must be processed out of 4,000 raw files and at this point I think any manufacturer would learn volumes.

At some point all any of us want is a product that works and is realiable and more importantly easier to use.  With digital capture we have all taken on a huge task of beocming photographer, film maker and lab and any issue, even a small one can make the difference between going to bed at midnight, or not going to bed at all.

For me the manufactuerer that is the most proactive and the most transparent will be the one that eventually succeeds.

IMO

JR
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