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Author Topic: Sunrise B&N  (Read 20682 times)
Ray
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 09:02:23 AM »
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seberri,
Why did you submit the image? If it wasn't because you suspected the mist on the left was a problem, what did you hope to learn?
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jani
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 10:41:58 AM »
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yes the 2 cropped images are working for me but that's 2 other images
... the dark mountain in the middle and the light coming from the left is my main interrest + the dominance of the sky to  give a more spacial feeling
Yes, of course they're different images, and that is sort of the point of the exercise.

Maybe you shouldn't use those images, but rather take it as ideas on how to compose new images later on.

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and Jani dont put 2005 seberri please ....  i am copyextreme left :-)
Okay, I've removed the text again.
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Jan
jani
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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2005, 05:42:47 PM »
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"Their purpose is to facilitate the discussion of photography ..."  I agree.  And that is also why I favor non-participation by the photographer.  The imae should reperesent his best efforts.  When you get every other post as a comment from the photogrpaher about how he likes the image the way it is, the discussion gets a little harder to find.
That depends on why the image was posted, Howard.

If the question is "how can I improve this image", or something similar to it, your stance is completely unreasonable.

Responses that disallow any further response from the photographer -- in forums like these -- are a waste of the photographer's time, the critic's time, and the readers' time.

All of this is of course my personal opinion, and I don't want to force anyone to agree with me or do as I say. But if anyone posts criticism of something I submit to these forums, I may comment on the criticism, ask questions, or whatever seems fair and appropriate at the moment.

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Of course the photographer liked the image as it was or he wouldn't posted it for comments.
Perhaps, but you're not considering the possibility that while the photographer liked the image, the photographer may not have been certain that it was as good as it should be.


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"You're trying to impose your own baggage here in contravention the customs of LL and every other photo discussion forum I've ever visited."  That's plain crap.
I concur, I don't see you imposing anything, you're just voicing your opinion, just like me.

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I do not have the authority, power, or desire to impose anything here.  My suggestion is not baggage.
And neither should it be taken as such.
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Jan
Ray
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2005, 05:38:29 AM »
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I've already mentioned,  I don't have any of my photos on the net and have provided the reasons.

If your criterion for a believable critique is the quality of the critic's photos, then you should search for the photos you like best on the net, and then solicit opinions from that photographer by private email or whatever.
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 08:17:04 AM »
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I hope you and I can interact in a more civil manner from now on.  I certainly will try.
I will as well.
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howard smith
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 10:52:57 AM »
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Having been motivated to look at some other photo critique site, I ran across this pithy one:

"I've seen worse........."

This one tops my previous all-time favorite of "A sincere effort."
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dmerger
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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 12:02:01 PM »
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Lisa, I understand and see the benefit of your approach in many cases, but when confronted with blatant dishonesty,  someone should stand up and point out that dishonesty is not acceptable.  To do otherwise would be to condone dishonesty.
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Dean Erger
seberri
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2005, 03:08:03 PM »
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thank you
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howard smith
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2005, 04:03:15 PM »
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No, I do not "jump on" opinions.  I get angry when you ask for an opinion and then offer an opinion of it.  I couldn't care less what you do or think of my opinions or ideas.  If you have a question, ask.  If you don't like the opinion, ignore it.  I did not ask for you opinion of the suggrstions.

No, I do not post my images as I no longer want critiques.  I am not finished learning by a long shot, I just don't ask the general public for opinions.  But be sure, that if I do, I will consider the ideas and act as I wish.  After all, they are still my images.  And also be sure, I would never say a suggestion was "a very strange idea."

At this time, my only critics are me and my wife.  She is quite good, very brutal, and honest.  When her critique is; "What did you take that for?", I tell her and we go on.  I know she thinks it is crap, and that is OK.  But we go on.  If she simply said "toss it," I would still do what I want but seriously consider the opinion.

If I want an opinion, I will post an image and ask.  But my images and what you think of them has nothing to do with your work and what I think of it.  If you do not think I am qualified to give advice, then just ignore it.  Actually, even if you think I am qualified, you can ignore my comments if you wish.  I must have missed the "Submit Resume" portion of your request.
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howard smith
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2005, 05:21:04 PM »
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"If i remove the left part and reduce the mist i have better to throw  directly the foto ...  the main interrest for me in this foto  is  erased moutains by the  morning light "

Then your mind was made up, you did not want an opinion, just a "Wow."  Trolling for raves.  Not the purpose of asking for comments or a critique.

Hang the image in a gallery, don't come to the show (you may hear something you don't like) and don't read the reviews.
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2005, 11:45:18 PM »
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Now that I look at it, I'm confused as well. One could certainly get the impression that some editing transpired, but none of Seberri's posts show the "edited by" tagline that the forum seems to add to any of my posts I have ever edited.

I edited this post to see if the tagline gets added. It did, and I'm not able to remove it. If Seberri edited his posts, he must know some kind of hack for the forum software to keep his edited posts from being tagged as such. Very strange.
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seberri
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2005, 05:21:13 AM »
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give me a link to your gallery , i shall see how subtil are your fotos, well composed, how strong is the message, what is your life philosophy and so on... if you want you can send it by PM ....

an opinion is nothing without SHOWING

when i read a few commentars of howard smith on other fotos  , something like : "you must crop top bottom and right, and clone 2 birds in the sky, my fotograph eyes  need to see it "....  I don't know if i must laugh :-)
you cannot call it a serious opinion
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seberri
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2005, 09:07:51 AM »
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Ray there are more subtil levels than croping and contrasting or erasing a small foliage in art .. . if i dont crop that one i shall crop another one ...

why nearlly allways such a low level in giving opinion  ?...
a bit more salad in that hamburger will not change mac donald philosophy ...  deeper is the point

I thought maybe on luminous landscape it was more luminous
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howard smith
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2005, 10:37:34 AM »
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sberri,

"... show me somewhere a foto taken by you when you were not there and let's speak after that :-)"

I don't understand the request.  As far as I know, I have always been present (or very near by) when I took a photograph.  And what part of I have no intention of showing you any of my photographs didn't you understand?

"i am not at all  a studiant too,  and  have done many drawings and painting exhibitions in my life ...  i know art from Lascaux to  now"

If your intention is to prove you know more about art or photography than I do, I will stipulate that you do.
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boku
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2005, 05:59:12 PM »
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seberri's posts have been edited.  Once again, seberri, I ask you, did you edit your posts and, if so, why?
Obviously Hacking - but how?
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Bob Kulon

Oh, one more thing...
Play it Straight and Play it True, my Brother.
Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2005, 10:44:00 AM »
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OK, I see what's gone wrong here.  Seberri posted an image for critique here before hanging around here long enough to see how things work around here.  He was expecting the usual fredmiranda.com style critique of "wow! beautiful!" and was insulted when people started making suggestions for improving it without particularly praising it.  But that's typically how this site works; in the past, typically, when someone posts an image for critique, it's because they're not quite content with it as it is and are looking for suggestions for improving it.  That's how we responded, and Seberri got insulted by our responses (who was it who once said that communication errors are the root of most problems between people?), and then the childish behavior got out of hand.

Seberri, hacking is *never* acceptable among people who aren't trying to cause trouble.  Your outburst about boku was childish.

Seberri:  If you are really interested in improving your image, not just in getting praise, then I can try to explain in more detail *why* I thought it might be improved by cropping some off the left (which a number of people here agree with; and if a number of people disagree with you on an issue, it's always wise to listen to them and consider what they say instead of just rejecting it as "wrong" - that's how one learns!).  Shall I try, or not bother?

Lisa
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seberri
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2005, 08:23:52 AM »
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dazzajl  there is no consensus on croping left , after about 100 commentars on this foto i got only 3 or 4
strangelly all at the same familly place : here :-)

.... for the quality of photos fredmiranda's or Naturescape forums are the best forums i know



 i will jonatan .. i will howard ... :-) ...  i will willy ! ..
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2005, 12:11:05 PM »
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dazzajl  there is no consensus on croping left , after about 100 commentars on this foto i got only 3 or 4
strangelly all at the same familly place : here :-)
Not so strange when the focus here is actually on improving one's work, rather than being a mutual admiration society. And FWIW, IMO the photo would be better if a bit was trimmed off the left.
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howard smith
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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2005, 03:11:20 PM »
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My comment may be nonsense.  Don't ask for an opinion if you don't want one.  This is exactly why I don't think the photographer should defend his image at crit.
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seberri
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2005, 05:01:23 PM »
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I have never said that I dont like your opinion, just that I shall not crop the left part or change anything to the mist

I said also that I shall try a bit more contrast and remove the foliage ... strangly  no comments from you about it :-)
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