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Author Topic: Interesting sales approach from Hasselblad  (Read 10329 times)
stewarthemley
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« on: November 20, 2006, 12:49:14 PM »
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Interesting “sales” approach from Hasselblad in the UK the other day. I arranged a demo of the H3D with the probability that I would buy the thing, plus maybe four lenses. The demo had been arranged almost three weeks beforehand, I had specified the lenses I wanted to demo and had been in regular touch to make it clear I was serious. I had persuaded an important client to let me shoot at their place and promised them some free shots as a sweetener. Late afternoon before the day of the demo I was informed that neither of the lenses I specifically wanted was available “…but I can show you the camera if you want.”

The company who arranged the demo were called Rapid Group. Anyone had a similar experience with them or Hassleblad? One of the attractions of the H was their “legendary service and support” their words, not mine. If that’s a sample I’ll be waiting for the Hy6.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 12:55:55 PM »
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I'd contact Hasselblad and let them know this as it sounds like a failing of the dealer, not necessary the company making the hardware. Not too professional I'll admit.
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Andrew Rodney
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 04:38:34 PM »
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I'd contact Hasselblad and let them know this as it sounds like a failing of the dealer, not necessary the company making the hardware. Not too professional I'll admit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good point, Andrew. But I should have added that I was told by the rep that someone from Hasselblad was also coming to the demo. I'll follow it up though just in case the sales rep from Rapid Group had "mistakenly" given me the wrong idea.

My reason for posting this is to see whether the "world's first full-frame DSLR" BS approach is how the new Hasselblad company intend to operate. It probably isn't and maybe they simply need to choose their dealers a little more carefully.
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Tim Lüdin
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 04:58:21 PM »
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Hi

Sounds like a bad rep. Here in Switzerland the hasselbald service is very good. I was able to demo the H3D last week. They gave me 3 lenses of choice, 4 batteries and the new flexcolor software.
2 days of testing on a real job (side by side with my 1DS 2). They even left me the system for a third day, because I asked nicely.

Hasselblad is realy pushing their digibacks. They know why.
They have a special promo option. You can trade in your old midformat cam (with one lens and mag) if you buy the new 39MP back. They'll give you 5000 swiss francs. That's about 3500 dollars.
It's pretty tempting. You wont get that much money on ebay for your old cam.

Crazy.

Tim
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 05:01:13 PM by Tim Lüdin » Logged

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pprdigital
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 10:10:07 PM »
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Good point, Andrew. But I should have added that I was told by the rep that someone from Hasselblad was also coming to the demo. I'll follow it up though just in case the sales rep from Rapid Group had "mistakenly" given me the wrong idea.

My reason for posting this is to see whether the "world's first full-frame DSLR" BS approach is how the new Hasselblad company intend to operate. It probably isn't and maybe they simply need to choose their dealers a little more carefully.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86244\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not sure how they're set up in the UK, but in the USA here's how it typically works:

If a rep from Hasselblad is coming to my neighborhood to visit, he does nothing more than show up. I take responsibility for all appointments made. I take responsibility for what those appointments wil be about. I take responsibility for all equipment used at the demonstration.This is how it works 95% of the time.

So, it is likely a dealer failing rather than a Hasselblad failing. But either way - this is a steep investment. I would contact another dealer or contact Hasselblad directly and tell them in no uncertain terms that you're interested in their product, but not without an improvement on your prior experience.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
James Russell
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 11:06:24 PM »
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Not sure how they're set up in the UK, but in the USA here's how it typically works:

If a rep from Hasselblad is coming to my neighborhood to visit, he does nothing more than show up. I take responsibility for all appointments made. I take responsibility for what those appointments wil be about. I take responsibility for all equipment used at the demonstration.This is how it works 95% of the time.

So, it is likely a dealer failing rather than a Hasselblad failing. But either way - this is a steep investment. I would contact another dealer or contact Hasselblad directly and tell them in no uncertain terms that you're interested in their product, but not without an improvement on your prior experience.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think this illustrates how much of the heavy lifiting is put on the dealers when it comes to digital back demonstrations, sales and instruction.

Still, there are a lot of reports that at the major shows the hasselblad reps did not have fully functioning product or know how to really work the camera/backs.

I've heard this numerous times.

JR
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pprdigital
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 11:17:59 PM »
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I think this illustrates how much of the heavy lifiting is put on the dealers when it comes to digital back demonstrations, sales and instruction.

Still, there are a lot of reports that at the major shows the hasselblad reps did not have fully functioning product or know how to really work the camera/backs.

I've heard this numerous times.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86291\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes - that's the other end of the problem. It's been a challenge for Hasselblad, that's for sure. Transitioning from a film-based, very analog camera company and also a film-based scanner company. They have added some very helpful personnel in terms of digital and camera-based knowledge, but some of the field reps still do not have that knowledge foundation. They need to do more work here.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
James Russell
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 11:37:20 PM »
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Yes - that's the other end of the problem. It's been a challenge for Hasselblad, that's for sure. Transitioning from a film-based, very analog camera company and also a film-based scanner company. They have added some very helpful personnel in terms of digital and camera-based knowledge, but some of the field reps still do not have that knowledge foundation. They need to do more work here.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The thing I don't understand about hasselblad is they are "almost" there but not exactly overwhelming the market.

Granted they have dodged some of the issues that Leaf has had with their 65/75 sensors and Phase has had some slight bloopers also with software upgrades, but overall Hasselblad has build a much better product than it was two years ago but not a world beater yet.

The negative reaction that got the the 28mm being a h3 only lense only hurts thier overall image.

At this point, with these hurdles you would think every hasselblad rep woudl show up with a complete knowledge of the product and be more than happy to assist the dealers and customers in trying their product.

I just came back from a day of meetings with one of my larger clients.  I fielded questions from groups of 15 people and can't imagine what the reaction would have been had I said, well I'm working on that, or I really don't know how to do this yet.

Let's be realistic.  We're all working in a no excuses industry and our clients as well as us are up against fiece worldwide competion and can see sales figures than can be tabulated exactly per day.

In other words it is qucikly becoming a very small but highly informed world.

News of a flaw in any product or industry travels quickly (look at the M-8) so in my mind I find it somewhat surprising that hasselblad would not have come to the t two major shows with perfect presentations and product knowledg as well as offering product that was more than equal to the competition.

JR
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 11:37:40 PM by James Russell » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2006, 07:01:41 AM »
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It is not just Hasselblad that has a problem with getting not only a working product but also knowledgable people to shows or potential clients.

I live in a place where there is only one dealer for my back of choice, this dealer I have tried to contact more than once stating I would like to buy a new back.

Not once they have replied or gotten back to me.

I have contacted them more than once about cameras and parts I wanted to buy from them.

Not once they have replied or gotten back to me.

I am still waiting for stuff I ordered with them for cameras I have sold long ago.

Eventually I bought my back via a dealer in the US (also because I could get it for a great price).

I will never ever do business with a party that clearly shows absolutely no interest in serving me. Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not a high maintenance client, au contraire. I get most of my knowledge by exploring myself. I just order stuff and pay for it. However when there are problems I would like to be able to get them solved. I just hope that eventually there will be another dealer over here that does care or a way that the dealer can be cut out. It sounds harsh but this I would prefer actually (in my case). I have no need for a dealer that is just a passing station, especially when they have less knowledge and are not interested in actually doing something.
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2006, 11:09:44 AM »
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As an update to my moan about Hasselblad’s “service”: their UK sales manager phoned me today to explain that it was a communications problem. Lots of apologies and let’s try again approach. Which is fair enough. Except I’m still smarting from looking slightly inept in front of my important client.

I’ll put this one down to the Best Laid Plans syndrome and try again in a few weeks. Being practical, we’re not exactly spoilt for choice, are we. Imagine having only one MFDB supplier…
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2006, 11:42:15 AM »
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I’ll be waiting for the Hy6.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86193\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's what I've decided to do...  Great lenses and they do have a shift lens and it is not a closed system so I can use the back on my view cam.  But Fuji/Hassy will have that 28 for the H3D...
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pixjohn
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2006, 12:35:05 PM »
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The Phase One rep did the same thing to me. I told him I needed to test the P45 with wide-angle lenses. He did not even bother to bring the lens calibration tool to correct the files from magenta lens issues with wide angle lenses.

 I also had the feeling he did not want to be at my place doing the test. I bought a Leaf back the next week. When you can't get good service from the rep let alone a sales agent I did not want to spend time with the product.
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charles_m
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2006, 12:44:04 PM »
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Except I’m still smarting from looking slightly inept in front of my important client.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The lesson you should take away from this is never test a camera in front of a client. The ONLY time you want to be around a good client is when you're in total command of your tools.
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josayeruk
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2006, 01:23:14 PM »
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That's what I've decided to do...  Great lenses and they do have a shift lens and it is not a closed system so I can use the back on my view cam.  But Fuji/Hassy will have that 28 for the H3D...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86414\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H3D works on a view camera as well.  The back can be removed and used for large format photography.  You can also use film with the H3D.

Jo
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2006, 05:14:18 PM »
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The H3D works on a view camera as well.  The back can be removed and used for large format photography.  You can also use film with the H3D.

Jo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Jo,

Do you use the H3D on a daily basis. What sort of stuff do you shoot with it ?  Have you got any examples you can post here?


PeteStreet
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James Russell
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2006, 06:54:44 PM »
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The lesson you should take away from this is never test a camera in front of a client. The ONLY time you want to be around a good client is when you're in total command of your tools.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think there is another lesson here.  

Most of us on this forum have seen Yair of Leaf come on time to time.

It's no secret that Leaf has had some recent issues with their sensors, but Yair's accessiblity has gone a long way to quiet some of this and for many of us even  impressed enough to look past some of the issues.

So many times most of the issues we have with these backs comes from the learning curve and the lack of communication between the user, the maker and the dealers.

Yair's availability has gone a long way to adding street creed to Leaf and I know won a lot of people over.

The same can be said for Dave Gallagher, (a Phase dealer) and Steve Hendrix (A leaf, Blad, Sinar dealer), who are both in Atlanta.  (What's the deal with Atlanta?).

Now obviously these people want to sell product but so does every other dealer and manufacturer in the world and these are the only three people I know of that make/sell a high end product that are available on line.

The fact that they come on, answer questions, some of them very difficult questions makes all of our jobs easier and our decisions wiser.

Why all the manufacturerers don't recognize this surprises me and I'm including Canon and Nikon in this mix.

All any of us want is just real answers, not just PR releases.

I've purchased and used Kodak, Nikon, Fuji, Leaf and Canon digital cameras and none of them are perfect, some of them for certain instances can be amazing but all have their limitations and work arounds.

I'd would have saved me a lot of time if Nikon had someone on one of these forums that said, "yes the highlights on the D2x can blow so watch the histogram closely".  Or if Canon addressed the red color in the skin tones and offered some information on how to remove it without globally messing with the file, or , etc. etc.

I can promise you the company that wins in this will be the one that's most transparent and Hasselblad could learn a lot by reading AND participating in these forums.

So could all the makers of the equipment we use.



JR
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com]http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com[/url]
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Dustbak
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2006, 02:20:11 AM »
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I totally agree with you on this.

I am amazed that there are only a very few people from manufacturers/dealers keeping in contact with people that use their equipment this way.

Maybe some people find the time to visit their dealers or maybe their dealers visit them everytime some problem needs to be solved but this is not the case with my dealer (or the dealer that I am supposed to choose) nor is it the case with every other MFDB owner I know.

I don't have the time nor the urge to visit someone to fix stuff I cannot get to work properly (most of the time to find out they know less about the stuff than I do). I can post/read during morning hours and late in the evening. It is very nice to get a response from people that are employed by the manufacturers or have a very close relationship to them or people that just know more or have more experience than I do.

For Leaf (or the Atlanta dealers) to participate on forums might be an unorthodox method but for me it works, it just show that they are willing to fill a need that exists with me and I reckon with most people on this forum as well.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 02:21:54 AM by Dustbak » Logged
stewarthemley
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2006, 04:12:17 AM »
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I think there is another lesson here. 

Most of us on this forum have seen Yair of Leaf come on time to time.

Yair's availability has gone a long way to adding street creed to Leaf and I know won a lot of people over.

The fact that they come on, answer questions, some of them very difficult questions makes all of our jobs easier and our decisions wiser.

Why all the manufacturerers don't recognize this surprises me and I'm including Canon and Nikon in this mix.

All any of us want is just real answers, not just PR releases.

I can promise you the company that wins in this will be the one that's most transparent and Hasselblad could learn a lot by reading AND participating in these forums.

So could all the makers of the equipment we use.
JR
http://www.russellrutherfordgroup.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've compressed your quote James but I couldn't agree more. After my failed first attempt to give Hasselblad all that money, and having seen Yair's helpful and honest replies on this forum, I now think it would be wise to test the Leaf backs alongside H and Phase. I din't initially plan to do this because of the various issues raised here, but I think that may be a temporary blip for them and Yair's attitude to his work impresses me enormously. I know he doesn't make the thing but he certainly is doing his best to help make it work.

Charles, I agree it's unwise to test a back in front of a client but this particular one gave me permission to roam and shoot at will without him being there. Which made it all the more annoying to have to cancel at less than a day's notice. Just writing that makes me angry again: that H3D better be some camera.
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James Russell
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2006, 09:13:37 AM »
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It is very nice to get a response from people that are employed by the manufacturers or have a very close relationship to them or people that just know more or have more experience than I do.

For Leaf (or the Atlanta dealers) to participate on forums might be an unorthodox method but for me it works, it just show that they are willing to fill a need that exists with me and I reckon with most people on this forum as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Most of us go online for information and for some reason information in the digital camera business either comes as rumor, conjecture, gossip, an agenda, or worse, just faulty data.

One well know internet reviewer with a lot of industry "contacts" said that Contax will be back, only to say they won't be back, only to buy a Hasselblad H-2 for his Phase back, only to find out that Hasselblad won't sell the newest lens for the H2, only to get angy about that.

Ooops... and I bet a lot of  well healed followers we're buying and selling Contax to Blad back to Contax like crazy during this period.

What is needed is honesty and transparency.  If an lcd or oled  is too red say that their working on it and give a real timeline, don't produce a press release that says, 40 billion pixel OLED preview.

If software is still in beta, just say it, don't keep coming out with versions 1.1 to 1.123456 saying it's all ok.

If one brand of camera and one brand of back tends to lock up and give error messages, be up front about it and the remidy, don't wait for someone to spend a ton of money only to stand around trying to fix it.

Gives us the facts as you know them and let us make our own decisions.

The two dealers and one manufacturer that frequents this forum gives us some good information but even then there is some things that just don't come out.  

After all we're going to find out for ourselves anyway so what is the point of not addressing it early on with an honest response.



JR
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hcubell
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2006, 10:28:58 AM »
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Most of us go online for information and for some reason information in the digital camera business either comes as rumor, conjecture, gossip, an agenda, or worse, just faulty data.

What is needed is honesty and transparency.  If an lcd or oled  is too red say that

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I assume you are referring to Hasselblad MFDBs. FWIW, I did a demo of an H3D-39 last weekend and shot a number of sample files in early morning, natural light. I used a preset white balance for Daylight. I could not detect any color cast in the LCD.  Was the LCD somewhat "warm", as it should have been without a custom WB? Maybe, but these LCDs are just not good enough to make color critical judgments. I would certainly not characterize it as a "red" LCD. (No, I was not wearing cyan tinted sunglasses.)When I opened the files in Flexcolor, the same warm, reddish cast that one would have expected from the use of a (inaccurate) Daylight preset at 5500K was consistently there in the Thumbnails, the Previews and  processed TIFFs opened in PS. No inconsistency. I wonder if others who have tested the H3D-39(not earlier iterations of the Imacon backs which were apparently known to have LCD issues) have observed red LCDs.
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