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Author Topic: PhaseOne and Architectural Photography--Live Video  (Read 7780 times)
pixjohn
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« on: November 22, 2006, 03:11:11 AM »
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This is a two-part question. Anyone shooting Architectural photography with the P45. I am interested with the workflow compared to my Aptus 75.  

What lenses need the lens color correction?  I am using the 24xl, 35xl, 47xl
How long does it take to use the lens correction?

since I am not happy with the workflow to correct the lens issue with my current back I am opento other mfdb.

Second question, anyone try the new live video?
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Jeffreytotaro
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 11:12:25 AM »
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Hello Pixjohn:

I currently use a Phase One P25 (for 2 years) along with a Cambo Wide DS with 24xl, 35xl, 47xk, 58xl, 72xl and 90xl lenses.  I went to Cambo's factory earlier this year to have some of my extisting lenses converted over to the Cambo mount.  

I tested all available backs prior to deciding on the Phase One.  My most significant reason for choosing Phase One over Leaf was the long exposure capability and the software.  Obviously the image quality is outstanding too.  Even the build quality is excellent.  

With the new Phase P+45 backs you have exposure up to 1 hour.  Does Leaf still time-out at 30 seconds?  The Live Video is very cool and would be useful on location.  It's easy to use.  The new backs also have a better LCD too.

When I tested the Leaf sotware I found it cumbersome to use on a laptop.  Windows popping up everywhere.  They may still be using the same version.  Did v10 come out yet?

The Phase software is excellent all-around.  It's very easy to use on the laptop, very organized and intuitive.  The Color Editor part of the software is great.  You pick a color with the picker and adjust the hue, saturation and brigtness of just that color, and it's the color you pick, not just red, green or blue, CMYK.  You have many output options of tiff, jpeg, or color spaces that can be output all at once from the same raw file.  Also I work with a Canon as a secondary camera and I can process those files in the same session as the Phase files so everything is very organized within the same job session.

The Lens Cast is a part of life with the Phase and wide angle lenses, but it's no big deal.  I use an Expodisc to capture the gray frame for calibration.  I use the 82mm Expodisc and it fits easily over the entire center filter for the 24 and 35 so you don't even have to screw it in.  (the expo actually pops in rather than screws in if you have the same size lens as the filter, but i just use one larger enough to hang off of all my lenses).  I takes only a moment to capture the image (about 2-3x more exposure), then you assign a name to that LCC profile and apply it to the images.  It needs to done each time you move the lens in relation to the chip.  I shoot one for every image on location.  Some people shoot them ahead of time for every possible lens, shift then keep them stored in the software and apply as needed.  Either way works, it does not have to be shot in the same light as the image unless you want to use the Expo capture for white balance which it's good for too.  All you have to do in the field is capture the gray frame.  It doesn't matter if it's the first image of shot or the last or if you do it the next day.  Imacon software required it be done in a particular order or it couldn't be done at all.

Overall I'm very pleased with the Phase One and there are way too many advantages of using Phase and the software to get discouraged by the LCC thing.

I hope that helps!
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vgogolak
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 01:40:14 PM »
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Quote
This is a two-part question. Anyone shooting Architectural photography with the P45. I am interested with the workflow compared to my Aptus 75. 

What lenses need the lens color correction?  I am using the 24xl, 35xl, 47xl
How long does it take to use the lens correction?

since I am not happy with the workflow to correct the lens issue with my current back I am opento other mfdb.

Second question, anyone try the new live video?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86525\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I thought the live video was only on P45+
Its not on current P45, is it?
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Eric Zepeda
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 02:34:47 PM »
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I thought the live video was only on P45+
Its not on current P45, is it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86614\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

They had it on a P45(not +) at PhotoPlusExpo. Color preview, pretty good refresh rate, but that's on a demo in a very controlled environment. We'll see what the real world brings.

I believe current P45 can be upgraded to live video, don't think P25 can. If anyone knows differently,  feel free to share.
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zzzone
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 02:52:55 PM »
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Hi Pixjohn

I cannot add much more than the previous reply other than to say that I am using the P45 with the Cambo WDS.  I have actually purchased the P45 (P45+ when available) and a Horseman SWD2 but the latter is still in Japan so I have been loaned free of charge the P45 and Cambo in the mean time.

I have only been using this now for just over one week and with no MFDB beforehand I must say that I am very impressed with the quality.   It is really very starightforward I that is coming from someone who has not read one manual!!!  I think all very high resolution backs need some calibration file with extreme lenses so I figured why not go with sorted software and the future with very fast processing with C1 v4 and live preview.  

It would very easy to prepare a few common LCC files with the Cambo or Horseman though I appreciate bringing tilt into the equation this would would not be very efficient.  The long hand solution is really not too onerous.

I am very pleased with my decision.  The Leaf guys were extremely helpful and it was a close call for me.

Steve Townsend
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pixpop
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2006, 12:24:02 AM »
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They had it on a P45(not +) at PhotoPlusExpo. Color preview, pretty good refresh rate, but that's on a demo in a very controlled environment. We'll see what the real world brings.

I believe current P45 can be upgraded to live video, don't think P25 can. If anyone knows differently,  feel free to share.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

eric, the p25 can be upgraded to the p25+ live video. here's the phase one data sheet

[a href=\"http://www.phaseone.com/upload/pplus_print.pdf]http://www.phaseone.com/upload/pplus_print.pdf[/url]

pp
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ericstaud
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2006, 01:31:57 AM »
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Hi John,

With Phase software it is nearly as easy to correct LCC as it is to set white balance.  It does not take very long because the correction is not written to the RAW files.  It is only applied as a process setting, and only the output is truly corrected.  So with your lenses you cannot use ACR, Lightroom, or other RAW developers to process your images because only C1 Pro can remove the Lens Casts.  I have tested the P45 and A75 side by side.  The P45 has more lens cast at every one of your focal lengths.  My 60mm even needs correction which, with a 645 sensor, is almost a normal lens.

So while the gain adjustment with the Aptus and eMotion backs seems like a PITA, you are actually ending up with corrected RAW files.  This method will allow you to process in other programs, and I would argue that the resulting RAW files are more archival and more portable.  I love using ACR to process my Aptus files, and know with Phase One I would be stuck in their proprietary software in order to remove Lens Casts.

There is little news about C1 Pro V4.  I have been told it will create DNG files from the P45 RAW files.  These DNG files will have the LCC applied, and so they will not have Lens Cast.  You would suddenly have a RAW file which can be processed in ACR, Lightroom, and others.  It will also be easy to make an iView catalog and embed keywords into your DNGs.  This throws a curve ball into my thinking that the eMotion and Aptus backs are creating more achival RAW files.  But, what I know about Phase One, DNG, and LCC has been gotten through tech support emails and is about a product which is not coming out for two more months.  As you and I have both learned in the last 6 months, it is not the greatest approach to invest in a product based on promises and assumptions.  Also, the DNGs cannot be processed in C1 pro to create RGB output as far as I have been told, so you may want to keep the original RAWs if you are making DNG's.

I am familiar with your work.  The Phase is definitely more efficient for you than Leaf because I believe you like shooting tethered.  It is nice to have images, which are LCC corrected, appear on the computer screen when you are shooting tethered.  In my test, the images from the A75-LC10 appeared noticibly faster on the screen than the P45-C1 Pro combination.  Of course you know I am using a Macbook Pro similar to yours.  My test was done about three weeks ago.  If you were shooting a lot more un-tethered and could use an automated correction software like the eMotion solution,  the current Phase solution would start to look very limiting and proprietary.

I really like the P45, but am scared because all the Phase One RAW files I have today have Lens Cast.  In thirty years I will need a licensed copy of C1 Pro that runs on Apple OSXXX to process those images with a LensCastCorrection utility.  My Leaf RAW files are corrected very shortly after I shoot them.
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rethmeier
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2006, 01:54:07 AM »
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If the Live Video from Phase is similar to the Aptus one,I must say it can't be used outside
and in bright conditions.

The Leaf one only works with interior conditions.

My point is,if you're going to shoot tethered,why not look at the preview on your laptop etc.

The eMotion-75 that I've ordered,doesn't have Live video(at the moment)however the OLED
screen is very good and it's very easy to check focus at 100%.


My2CW,
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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KristerH
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2006, 03:21:12 AM »
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Steve-

I am using an A75 on a H2 system now and are searching for a interior camera.
Please come back and tell us what you thing about the new SWD2 when it arrives.

Krister Halvars
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zzzone
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2006, 01:12:39 PM »
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Steve-

I am using an A75 on a H2 system now and are searching for a interior camera.
Please come back and tell us what you thing about the new SWD2 when it arrives.

Krister Halvars
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Krister

I certainly will.  I hope I am not disappointed.  The reason I went for the SWD2 over the Cambo is two fold.
1.  The back shifts and the lens stays still and
2.  The back can be mounted portrait and landscape on the SWD2

What I am concerned about is no geared movements.  I wish I had looked more closely at the Horseman at Photokina, but I didn't.

Regards Steve
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marcwilson
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2006, 02:17:13 PM »
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has anyone looked at or even better used the silvestri bicam system?
seems like a fairly compact medium format shift system for film and digital backs.
Marc
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KristerH
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2006, 02:26:11 PM »
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Great Steve.
looking forward to that. Where have you placed your order ?

/k
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zzzone
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2006, 02:58:35 PM »
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Great Steve.
looking forward to that. Where have you placed your order ?

/k
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Teamwork, London.

I understand that there are no SWD2's in the UK yet.  Robert White doesn't have them yet either.

Steve
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Boghb
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2006, 06:29:29 PM »
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Marc

I have the bicam but haven't actually used it yet since the lenses have not arrived.  I am also not getting accurate focus on the sliding back, so I am waiting to resolve that.

I went with the bicam because it allows the use of a sliding back and tilt, so it is almost like a 6x9 view camera, but much more practical.

I had the SWD, but put it up for sale when I switched to the H mount.  One note of caution on that: lens cast with the 24mm Digitar and the P45 was terrible.  Magenta and yellow casts were visible in the C1 preview, but could be effectively removed by the LCC tool so long as you took a reference shot for every capture.

I ordered the Rodentstock HRs because they are retrofocus and produce less cast, but then went back to 35mm digitar because of the bigger coverage.  I do expect lens cast with that too, when it arrives.

The biggest issue with the P45 is lens cast but I agree that it is resolvable with one or more added workflow steps.  The issue with the LF-type cameras and DBs is focus, and I am not sure if there will be a solution to that in the field until we get live preview on the DB.
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zzzone
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 02:31:15 AM »
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I had the SWD, but put it up for sale when I switched to the H mount.  One note of caution on that: lens cast with the 24mm Digitar and the P45 was terrible.  Magenta and yellow casts were visible in the C1 preview, but could be effectively removed by the LCC tool so long as you took a reference shot for every capture.

I ordered the Rodentstock HRs because they are retrofocus and produce less cast, but then went back to 35mm digitar because of the bigger coverage.  I do expect lens cast with that too, when it arrives.

The biggest issue with the P45 is lens cast but I agree that it is resolvable with one or more added workflow steps.  The issue with the LF-type cameras and DBs is focus, and I am not sure if there will be a solution to that in the field until we get live preview on the DB.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am using the 35mm digitar/P45 and the lens cast is significant.  I am two weeks in to this now so this is all very new.  But yesterday I had three jobs in London and it was all a bit of a rush.  The shots were not of particular importance so I standardised the shifts and avoid twice as many shots:  5mm up 0mm side and 5mm up 15mm left and 15mm right to stitch.  I then used just three calibration refence shots and applied these in C1.  I didn't even make notes of what I had done because it was pretty obvious when looking at the previews.  What I was impressed with is the image circle on the 35mm digitar.  When stitched the 37 by 49mm CCD just became 37mm by 79mm (almost).  But yes you are right about focus for the moment but I haven't had any problems using the lens scale, so long as you do not forget!!

C1 has the facility to stitch which I have tried unsuccessfully.  The shift presumably needs to be standarised?

Regards Steve
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Boghb
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2006, 03:38:59 AM »
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I tried to stitch once in C1 once, and gave up.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2006, 04:29:50 AM »
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The shift presumably needs to be standarised?

Regards Steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think (but am not sure) that the stitching in C1 is matched with certain sliding backs

Linhof being one of them

The linhof is 'indented' and the screen marked to make two upright images with a p25 size chip

(giving slightly smaller than 9 wide and 6 high)

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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zzzone
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2006, 05:17:47 AM »
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I think (but am not sure) that the stitching in C1 is matched with certain sliding backs

Linhof being one of them

The linhof is 'indented' and the screen marked to make two upright images with a p25 size chip

(giving slightly smaller than 9 wide and 6 high)

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am sure you are right because I have seen it demonstrated successfully and I am pretty sure that was with a P25 and Linhof 659 or whatever it is.  And it was with their sliding back.

Steve
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free1000
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2006, 06:11:40 AM »
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I have the Leaf A75 and the Cambo Wide with the Schneider 35XL and 47XL lenses. I also have the sliding back and my own adapter that works on my Ebony 45S, I use that with 72XL and 150 Schneider lenses.  I shoot 1DsII with a variety of lenses for fast coverage of details and people/environment.

After some initial problems with the A75 I now have one which can be used with 15mm shifts in either direction with little or no colour casts. Where required I use the leaf supplied translucent filter and their gain utility to correct colour casts. I think I only need this about 25% of the time though, and it depends on the subject.

Still havent got a really wide lens, can't make up my mind about 24XL versus the Rodenstock 28HR.

After the initial commissioning issues, I'm fond of the Cambo Wide now. One feature which I think is pretty unique, is the way I can use it handheld. Not ideal, but there are many times when a tripod is not permitted but you can get off a few handheld shots before the legions of pseudo-policement descend.
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marcwilson
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2006, 10:41:20 AM »
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Marc

I have the bicam but haven't actually used it yet since the lenses have not arrived.  I am also not getting accurate focus on the sliding back, so I am waiting to resolve that.

I went with the bicam because it allows the use of a sliding back and tilt, so it is almost like a 6x9 view camera, but much more practical.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you could let us know how you get on with the bicam I would be grateful...I am looking at it over the cambo due to more compact nature plus much easier to adapt lenses to it.

Thanks,
Marc
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