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Author Topic: hand-made papers  (Read 17409 times)
FrankG
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« on: November 29, 2006, 10:26:02 PM »
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i want to experiment with some "new looks" and wondered if there are any papers that look hand-made, sometimes called Japanese paper, that are coated for inkjet photo printing. I'm also open to other media suggestions
thanks
Frank
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jjlphoto
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 06:54:31 AM »
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I got a sampler from Digital Art Supplies. Their Japanese line has some interesting ones. Many of those are thin when compared to the beefy Hahnemuhle Photo rag, but it is a start.

http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/jappapcoatfo.html
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Thanks, John Luke

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FrankG
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 03:03:19 PM »
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I got a sampler from Digital Art Supplies. Their Japanese line has some interesting ones. Many of those are thin when compared to the beefy Hahnemuhle Photo rag, but it is a start.

http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/jappapcoatfo.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87824\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks.
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 05:43:44 PM »
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There are many Japanese papers. The finest do not use wood pulp. They are expensive .A single A1 sheet can be over $100USD. A batch of paper may take eight weeks to make. The craft is such that the Master Washi  Makers may be designated as Treasures of Japan.I am using paper
from a specialised area that has been making paper for 1400 years. Nothing comes even close to it. The paper alone can be framed as a thing of beauty without an image. Images on it glow.
Enough
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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FrankG
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 07:23:39 PM »
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There are many Japanese papers. The finest do not use wood pulp. They are expensive .A single A1 sheet can be over $100USD. A batch of paper may take eight weeks to make. The craft is such that the Master Washi  Makers may be designated as Treasures of Japan.I am using paper
from a specialised area that has been making paper for 1400 years. Nothing comes even close to it. The paper alone can be framed as a thing of beauty without an image. Images on it glow.
Enough
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87949\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I assume the paper you're using is a 'trade secret' or you would have mentioned it. But are there others you can name to be considered?
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 07:20:30 AM »
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No trade secrets. It's on my website. I use Awagami papers from Takushima Prefecture. They have a website too . I personally prefer Okinawa and Bizan. Both hold ink well, but not as much as say Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.This may well improve. I know they are working on it. Despite this the paper itself seems to have a luminosity that lifts the colours. The texture of these papers is completely random- no machine repetition. It's like comparing  trompe l'oeil with wallpaper. The handmade papers have 4 true deckle edges.I believe Franck Bordas in Paris (Atelier Bordas)is using Awagami too. He uses inkjet and litho, so he may be only using for litho.There has been some in the USA but I don't know where. Perhaps someone in that part of the world might enlighten me. I do know there is not much outside Japan. This may change, but production of ultra-fine papers is limited and cost will preclude general use. It's sort of like an uber-Leica...
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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pflower
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 02:25:55 PM »
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How do you print on it?  I bought a few sheets of some different   beautiful handmade papers but my experiments on an Epson 3800 (MK ink, playing around with ehnanced/archival matte media settings and profiles) produce a very weak washed out image of no real interest.  The papers in question have been used for inkjet prints but the shop didn't know what settings were used on the samples.  Just for an initial experiment I am reluctant to go off and incur costs of a profile - which in any event probably won't address the weight of ink.  Any tips?

Thanks

Quote
No trade secrets. It's on my website. I use Awagami papers from Takushima Prefecture. They have a website too . I personally prefer Okinawa and Bizan. Both hold ink well, but not as much as say Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.This may well improve. I know they are working on it. Despite this the paper itself seems to have a luminosity that lifts the colours. The texture of these papers is completely random- no machine repetition. It's like comparing  trompe l'oeil with wallpaper. The handmade papers have 4 true deckle edges.I believe Franck Bordas in Paris (Atelier Bordas)is using Awagami too. He uses inkjet and litho, so he may be only using for litho.There has been some in the USA but I don't know where. Perhaps someone in that part of the world might enlighten me. I do know there is not much outside Japan. This may change, but production of ultra-fine papers is limited and cost will preclude general use. It's sort of like an uber-Leica...
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88040\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Pete JF
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2006, 03:28:42 PM »
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I recently finished a project involving having to print onto a metallic, non-inkjet paper in 4' x 13' lengths. I used this product and my old 2200 and it worked out great. I dont think I'd put it through my 4800 but there are people doing it.

http://www.inkaid.com/

Fine artists are cramming all sorts of stuff into their printers using this product as receiving medium for the inkjet ink.

I found that it brushes on extremely well with a black foamie brush. Settles into a very smooth finish. I've been meaning to try applying a slightly thinned, sprayed (it's supposed to spray very well) coat onto some of the popular matte, fine art papers to see if I could print with the PK ink.

It comes in several sheens and different looks.

I realize that you guys are going for matte look to take advantage of the tooth of these papers but it's a worthwhile product to know about.
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FrankG
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2006, 09:10:40 PM »
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I recently finished a project involving having to print onto a metallic, non-inkjet paper in 4' x 13' lengths. I used this product and my old 2200 and it worked out great. I dont think I'd put it through my 4800 but there are people doing it.

http://www.inkaid.com/

Fine artists are cramming all sorts of stuff into their printers using this product as receiving medium for the inkjet ink.

I found that it brushes on extremely well with a black foamie brush. Settles into a very smooth finish. I've been meaning to try applying a slightly thinned, sprayed (it's supposed to spray very well) coat onto some of the popular matte, fine art papers to see if I could print with the PK ink.

It comes in several sheens and different looks.

I realize that you guys are going for matte look to take advantage of the tooth of these papers but it's a worthwhile product to know about.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88126\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Pete,
I also have a 2200 and would to hear more about how you put various materials coated with this stuff through it. Just feed through the rear manual feed, what thickness, which printer property settings, and so on....?
Thanks
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Pete JF
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2006, 10:11:42 PM »
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Yep Frank, everything we did was the straight through path from the back. The only issue we had were the pizza rollers hittting the image on the way out, but that was quickly solved by pushing up on the pizza rollers (they're actually rubber rollers on the 2200 not the starwheels like on other epson printers) and lodging a toothpick into each of the slots next to the axel.

Other than that, we experimented coating the papers (2 coats) with Inkaid and then with various profiles availlable in imageprint.... did a little babysitting of each long print as it made it's way through..no problems. These products come in gloss, semi gloss and matte as well as some tha thave semi opaque qualities.

Printer properties were being controlled by Imageprint. For black and white work on the 2200 you might have issues with the espon drivers producing decent black and white. for color, there shouldn't be much of a problem.

There is a pretty good book that my client purchased to refer to..The Digital Art Studio, by Karen Schminke.

When it all came down to it, we did a lot of tests and then jumped in.

People are putting thin sheets of metal, wood veneer, plastic etc through some of these printers incuding the 2200...we considered usinf thing sheets of metal but found a good solution in a paper we found which we mounted to some medium weight cardboard because it was very thin...I would suggest getting the book and also calling the Inkaid folks, they were very helpful. Most of the opbvious questions are answered in the FAQ section of the Inkaid site...no, Im not affiliated...

Hope that helps
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 10:18:59 PM by Pete JF » Logged
FrankG
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2006, 04:25:38 PM »
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the pizza rollers hittting the image on the way out, but that was quickly solved by pushing up on the pizza rollers (they're actually rubber rollers on the 2200 not the starwheels like on other epson printers) and lodging a toothpick into each of the slots next to the axel.


Thanks. It's all very interesting. I did a look around and the Inkaid folks say to only use the white matte for the 2200 not the clear or semi-clear 'cos of the pizza roller problem. But you say the 'tothpick' method works and the rollers dont drag on the printed piece on the way out ?
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FrankG
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2006, 04:28:31 PM »
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Quote from: Pete JF,Dec 2 2006, 04:11 AM
by pushing up on the pizza rollers (they're actually rubber rollers on the 2200 not the starwheels like on other epson printers) and lodging a toothpick into each of the slots next to the axel.


I cant see where to place the toothpick/s ? and still leave space for the paper to come out
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Pete JF
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2006, 10:18:01 PM »
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Hi Frank,

The rollers you are concerned with are on the top of the exit gap..for each roller you will see a little dash shaped opening for the first 6 rollers on the right side of the exit gap..the rollers on the left side are managed by a sort of a 6 or seven inch horizontal plate...on the right side, you push up on the roller..gently..and then experiment with lodging a sharp toothpick into the left or right side of the dash shaped opening. You will soon see how this all works. The toothpicks do not go in on the underside of the roller (that would put them in the paper path)..they go into the slots that you can see. Actually, on some of these rollers i used wire twisties..thicker ones and they worked fine.

on the left side, try pushing up on that black plate..then you have to play with lodging something in several of those smaller openings to keep the rollers up...that will handle all the rollers on the left side.

capiche?

It's sort of hard to explain over the web but if you play a little, you'll start to see how things are put together in there.

Yes, you can use the other INKaid finishes as long as you devise a good system to keep the rollers up, it works. Certain of those textures come out of the printer in a delicate state...they will dry ok though.

With a heavy sheet of paper that has some curl to it, you might have to watch the beginning of print start to come out and hold it down, away from the lodged up rollers, it may want to curl up. Once it gets enough of it's own weight outside of the printer, it should lay down away from the rollers.

Give it a shot and try to start understanding how that whole roller section is put together...those rollers seem to be fairly useless in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 11:47:56 PM by Pete JF » Logged
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2006, 10:43:56 PM »
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Pete's toothpicks probably work just fine, and his description is correct as far as I can see. But if you want to spend a little bit of money     you can also get a set of little plastic plugs to stick in those slots from MIS (http://www.inksupply.com). Go to the page on Refill Kits, Accessories, and choose the group called "Accessories and Spare Parts for CFS units." Scroll down a bit and you'll find "WHEEL HOLDERS FOR EPSON 2200 (SET OF Cool
MIS 2200 WHEEL HOLDER - It is a simple solution to a difficult problem on the Epson 2200. These little rubber wheels don't do much of anything except screw up your prints. Our Wheel Holders get them up and out of the way. Easy to install."

For $1.95 (set of eight) plus shipping. I installed a set a couple of years ago (because toothpicks hadn't yet been invented?), and they have worked just fine ever since.

Those exit wheels on the 2200 are a royal PITA.

-Eric
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
FrankG
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2006, 05:35:51 AM »
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"WHEEL HOLDERS FOR EPSON 2200 (SET OF Cool

For $1.95 (set of eight) plus shipping. I installed a set a couple of years ago (because toothpicks hadn't yet been invented?), and they have worked just fine ever since.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88523\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK thanks I'll look at those. Hardly worth hauling out a credit card for $1.95 though.

I thought those rubber wheeels were there, at the exit. to help pull the print out of the printer
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FrankG
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2006, 05:42:38 AM »
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i want to experiment with some "new looks" and wondered if there are any papers that look hand-made.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87788\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A little research tells me that the 2200 can take media up to 1.3mm thick. Assuming I get the rollers up and out of the way, how do I test to be sure the media isnt thick enough to brush against or damage the print head?

Usually you first move the paper thickness lever all the way down, ad the light flashes away - you insert your paper into the manual/rear slot, positnion it, and then return it to the 'envelope' or second from the top position for 'thicker' paper. Where and how do you position it for really thick stuff like heavy card or acrylic or weed veneer or metal or whatever?
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FrankG
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2006, 08:53:18 AM »
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little plastic plugs to stick in those slots from MIS (http://www.inksupply.com). [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88523\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the link Eric - the site has a photo showing where and how to wedge the upper rubber wheels up and out of the way
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picnic
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2006, 09:29:28 AM »
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Thanks for the link Eric - the site has a photo showing where and how to wedge the upper rubber wheels up and out of the way
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is a  terrific thread.  I'm a 'retired' textiles artist besides a photographer.  I have been searching for a way to use 'printed' (as opposed to silkscreened) images on various materials, including fabrics.  I have a 3800 on order but plan to put my 2200 to use with the alternative materials and all these tips are very helpful.   I'm looking for the book mentioned also---


Addendum:  I've ordred the book, found the inkaids page and found some other good information  thanks to this thread.  

Diane
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 10:22:12 AM by picnic » Logged
c77man
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2006, 02:48:16 PM »
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I had mentioned this product on your other forum posting at dpreview.com...


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=21165749

Looked nice from what I've seen.
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