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Author Topic: Gottschalt DS-30 and Cambo WDS  (Read 7877 times)
rethmeier
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« on: November 30, 2006, 02:54:54 PM »
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I was very pleased to read the comments about the Alpa 12SWA.

Now it would be great to hear from the Cambo WDS and the Gottshalt DS-30 users.
I know that Rainer is very pleased with his DS-30 and Kumar with his WDS.

I still like the Alpa 12SWA,my only gripe is no lateral shift.

The Alpa XY is great,however too large for my liking.

Any advise and comments would be great!

Thanks,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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marcwilson
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 03:44:33 PM »
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you may also want to look at the horseman swd pro2 and the  silvestri bicam..two more aternatives just to confuse matters in the solid shift camera market..although the horseman is for digital backs only, not film.
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rethmeier
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 04:55:11 PM »
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Thanks Marc!
The Horseman is not geared and has limited lenses.
The Silvestri might not be accurate enough with parallel planes with the 28 + 35mm lenses.
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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marcwilson
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 05:16:56 PM »
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William,

The silvestri is a solid camera body / lens / back combo (although you can add a flex type bellows to it to gain tilts)..but for shifts in normal mode without the bellows there can be no movement off the parralel...as far as I know!

I am soon (in the new year) to look at the two systems (cambo wds and silvestri bicam) but unfortunately no one reseller stocks both so they have to be looked at individually.

Marc
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zzzone
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 05:31:24 PM »
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Hi

I have been using the WDS now for three weeks waiting for my Horseman to arrive.

The WDS is great with a V back but I would suggest not with a M645 or H back because you cannot rotate the back.  Yes the gearing is great but I wouldn't like to have to put the wds on its side when needing portrait format!!  The other thing to think about is stitching.  When the wds is upright, horizontal shfift moves the back, fine, but vertical shift moves the lens, not so good.

The Alpa12 is fantastic but I really couldn't do without xy stitch.  The Alpa XY maybe an engineering masterpiece but really it looks just ridiculous and cumbersome.  Alpa will tell you it needs to be this way because of the extreme tolerances needed by the high resolution backs, so your comment relating to the Silvestri maybe quite true.  One of the joys of these cameras is the speed of use.

Steve Townsend
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marcwilson
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 05:32:46 PM »
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William,

there is also from gottschalt a newer camera called the RD-20...
...seems to be more set up to digital backs and wider lenses (24mm up)

here is a link to their website for it...

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...6lr%3D%26sa%3DX

ps..i think the cambo wds is a bit larger than the smaller alpa swa etc so you may find it too large..if you feel the alpa xy is.

marc
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pixjohn
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 05:57:22 PM »
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I use the Cambo Wide DS and really like the camera. I shoot with the 24xl 35xl and 47xl lenses. Its a simple  and  solid camera to work with.

As pointed out the one thing that is a negative is shooting horizontal. I need to remove the camera and mount it in the vertical position. Since I shot 90% horizontal its not that big a deal. I have asked Cambo about mounting a second  quick release mount on the bottom  to the side to make it easier to change position. I have still not heard back  

John
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Kumar
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2006, 06:12:56 PM »
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Hi Willem,

I bought the WDS last year after investigating all the choices available at that time. And I need 4" x 5" capability to use with my Betterlight, or with film. XY stitching at the rear would really be the best. I have stitched with the Betterlight as well, and have got fantastic results. Of course, movement and low light result in unusable images with the Betterlight, but I always have some Fuji negative film with me. I have been looking at one-shot backs, but I refuse to be a beta tester - or at least an unpaid one .

Kapture Group makes a stitching accessory called the Quadstitch for 22 and 39MP backs. Has any one used this?

Cheers,
Kumar
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marcwilson
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2006, 03:56:47 AM »
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I use the Cambo Wide DS and really like the camera. I shoot with the 24xl 35xl and 47xl lenses. Its a simple  and  solid camera to work with.

As pointed out the one thing that is a negative is shooting horizontal. I need to remove the camera and mount it in the vertical position. Since I shot 90% horizontal its not that big a deal. I have asked Cambo about mounting a second  quick release mount on the bottom  to the side to make it easier to change position. I have still not heard back   

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87951\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John, Kumar
Can I just confirm this:

To shoot landscape (horizontal) you have to mount the camea in the vertical position?..or am I reading this wrong?..I assume to shoot landscape the camera is in the horizontal position and this would be the basic setup so to shoot vertical you need to.....?

With the 38mm lenses and below that you and kumar use am I right in saying you have to use the fixed non rotating ground glass back..but the one back will work for all these lenses?

Can the wooden handle be removed to make the camea generally more compact or woudl this make no difference..I am going to be using this set up in conjunction with a medium format slr so am loking for as compact where possible.


Thanks,

Marc
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 04:28:30 AM by marcwilson » Logged

Kumar
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2006, 05:12:29 AM »
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Marc,

I do not have a one-shot back. I use the Cambo WDS with film or a Betterlight, so it may be different with a digital back adapter.

1. The 4x5 back rotates. There are separate back extensions for 90mm and 150mm lenses. For lenses shorter than 90mm, no extensions are required.

2. The 38mm lens has a special non-rotating back that is set to landscape mode. To shoot a vertical, you have to turn the tripod head. I have a geared Manfrotto 410, and it is very easy to do this. I would have liked a tripod mount on the side.

3. I have removed the wooden handles to make it more compact.

Overall, it's not as compact as a Horseman SWD2Pro, but then it takes my Betterlight, and as far as I know, no other shift camera does.

Cheers,
Kumar
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pixjohn
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2006, 06:16:24 AM »
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The Wooden handle has a screw mount in the handle to mount vertical. I believe if you shoot V mount you do not have to turn the camera. Only turn the back. I shoot with a H mount and did not know I would have to turn the camera when i purchased it, since i tested with the v mount. It take 10 sec to turn the camera on its side.
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marcwilson
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2006, 06:48:37 AM »
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Thanks guys,

I would be shooting with a 69 (using 68 crop) film back to start with using the 38mm xl lens and then later on a contax fit db at other times using a 24/28mm digitar lens.

The cambo certainly does give more flexibility than the other options in terms of geared movements, side and vertical shift etc.

Marc
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pixjohn
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2006, 07:19:22 AM »
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I am told its not a good idea to shoot film with the wide ds. I would call calumet and ask about it. I know the lenses for the Wide DS are  only for digital backs.
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marcwilson
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2006, 07:37:03 AM »
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As far as I have been able to find out the wide ds / wds can take both the digitar lenses (24 / 28 / 35 etc) and also the traditional 'film' lenses such as the schneder 38mm xl etc. This is the lens I would be using with the film back.
If anyone knows / has experience otherwise please do let me know.

Thanks.
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Kumar
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2006, 07:48:57 AM »
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I am told its not a good idea to shoot film with the wide ds. I would call calumet and ask about it. I know the lenses for the Wide DS are  only for digital backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88039\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK there are separate adapters for the digital backs, and regular and digital lenses are available in the Cambo WideDS mount. But the basic camera itself remains the same. One can change from 4"x5" to digital with the appropriate adapter. Shooting film with digital lenses might not be a good idea, because they have much smaller coverage, and their optimum apertures are wider than those on regular lenses.

Cheers,
Kumar
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marcwilson
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2006, 07:49:57 AM »
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I have spoken to calumet.
Same wds body. Just use film lenses such as 38mm xl for film backs and digital lenses such as 24 / 28 digitars etc for db's.

I am going to be looking at the wds system for both film and digital use next week at calumet over here so, William, if you have any particular questions you want answered let me know and I'll ask them for you.

I shall also report my experience after that here.

Marc
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 07:51:28 AM by marcwilson » Logged

Ron Steinberg
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2006, 09:01:54 AM »
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The WDS is great with a V back but I would suggest not with a M645 or H back because you cannot rotate the back.  Yes the gearing is great but I wouldn't like to have to put the wds on its side when needing portrait format!!  The other thing to think about is stitching.  When the wds is upright, horizontal shfift moves the back, fine, but vertical shift moves the lens, not so good.


Steve Townsend
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can indeed rotate the H back on a Cambo WideDS, I've just tested it with our demo WideDS and  a Phase One P25. If you look carefully at this image, you will see that there is a silver sliding catch at the top of the opening in the plate. If you slide this, you can take the centre drop in insert and rotate it 90 degrees and lock it into place. You do not rotate the entire mounting plate, only the drop in insert. On a V back this is unneccessary (at least with Phase One backs) because they have mounting tabs on both the bottom and side of the back.

Cheers,
Ron
[attachment=1269:attachment]
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Eric Zepeda
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2006, 09:11:12 AM »
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In talking to Calumet here in NYC, I've been told that the WDS adapters are optimized at the factory for the particular body they are mated to, so while you can swap adapters and it may work, they do not recommend it. As Pixjon, said, I've also been told that film and digital on the same body with digitar lenses does not work due to coverage issues. That said, I still have a hassy v mount back that I take with a few rolls of film if I'm going to a remote location, but I've never had my P25 go down (knock o wood). I figure even with the coverage issue any image is better than no image, but I also have the 1Ds as backup as well.

Using the Cambo with the 35 and 47 Digitars is a blast, Lcc's and all with the P25v. Switching between horizonatl and vert requires just the back to be rotated, and even shooting tethered, this setup is much faster than the old days of 4x5. 24mm is limited on shoft, but still very handy.

I am looking forward to the new Arca. Having tilt and a bayonet mount for lenses with helical focusing on the body seems very promising, not to mention the zoom viewfinder.
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marcwilson
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2006, 09:42:59 AM »
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As Pixjon, said, I've also been told that film and digital on the same body with digitar lenses does not work due to coverage issues.


I completely agree and the point is to use the digitar lenses 24 / 28 / 35 ect for db's  but if using film backs you use one of the other non digital lenses such as the 38mm xl.

I will be using film at first so am looking to get the system set up that way.
When it is used with a db instead of a film back you simply swap the lens  from the 38mm xl to a digitar. This way you could also use a 47mm xl and shoot with 54 film also.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 09:50:13 AM by marcwilson » Logged

rainer_v
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2006, 11:28:01 AM »
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I was very pleased to read the comments about the Alpa 12SWA.

Now it would be great to hear from the Cambo WDS and the Gottshalt DS-30 users.
I know that Rainer is very pleased with his DS-30 and Kumar with his WDS.

Thanks,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i have the ds-45, but it is modified. it has a sliding-groundglas back and i can rotate the sensor 90 horizontal to vertical. bad thing here is that i cant use a standard hassy or mamiya adapter, cause the movable sliding back becomes than to thick. so i have to unscrew the sensor and to mount the hassy adapter if i want to use it on another system. but its a great architecture camera which has more possibilities than the others i know. i use lenses from 28 - 135mm.
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rainer viertlböck
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