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Author Topic: P30 V P21  (Read 6110 times)
awofinden
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« on: December 03, 2006, 12:55:11 PM »
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So if your only printing at 11 * 14 300 dpi would the image quality of the P21 be better than the P30 because of not needing to downsample?
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Joe Behar
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 07:35:59 AM »
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Nope...
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awofinden
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 07:59:01 AM »
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Nope...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So why 30 mp? Catalogues are smaller than that, magazines are, some ads go bigger, I understand that if you were shooting an ad. that was going to run big in a store or something but for 95 % of work 18mp would be a better choice it seems. Am I missing something?
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Jekyll
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 08:19:15 AM »
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Your missing the micron size of the sensers.  P21 is 9 microns, and the P30 is 6.8.  

Smaller microns = less moire to deal with.
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awofinden
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 08:26:37 AM »
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Your missing the micron size of the sensers.  P21 is 9 microns, and the P30 is 6.8. 

Smaller microns = less moire to deal with.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88565\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes I understand moire issue, it seems small pixel size with micro lenses do have an associated downside such as a slightly softer image and lack of wide angle ability. The P25 is 9 microns which many people rave about.
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Jekyll
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 08:34:00 AM »
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Having smaller microns in your DB does not mean you get a softer image, less DOF yes, but not softer.  And depending on the lens, any DB could have lens cast and lens fall off.  Doesn't matter what kind of back it is, but thats what LLC is for.  
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awofinden
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 08:40:57 AM »
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Having smaller microns in your DB does not mean you get a softer image, less DOF yes, but not softer.  And depending on the lens, any DB could have lens cast and lens fall off.  Doesn't matter what kind of back it is, but thats what LLC is for. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

O.k. but do you see my point regarding resolution?
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Jekyll
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 08:56:01 AM »
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Down sizing is not a issue, up sizing can get tricky though.  It all depends on what your clients expect and what the clients you want to get asks for.

As we are talking about the Phase backs, you can use the 'To size' feature in your process tool and get the exact dementions that you want.  And because C1 does not make the pixels until you hit the process button, you can down size and up size with little to no effect on image quality.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 09:04:53 AM by Jekyll » Logged
awofinden
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 09:04:17 AM »
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Down sizing is not a issue, up sizing can get tricky though.  It all depends on what your clients expect and what the clients you want to get asks for.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88581\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess if your clients want 30 by 40 inch prints 40 mp are needed but for everything else I think it's actually worse. Even if you don't mind downsampling theres still the speed issue both of shooting and handling files.
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Jekyll
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2006, 09:49:14 AM »
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Theres no question that the P21 is a very fast DB, over 60 fpm with a MacPro and with the IIQ S the file size is quite small.  It comes down to what kind of shooter you are and whats important to you.

See my edited post, ^^ for the res issue.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 09:49:58 AM by Jekyll » Logged
KenRexach
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2006, 09:49:31 AM »
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From what ive read, after extensive researching online etc, there is good consensus indicating that the P30 is the back that produces the best out of the box images and requires the least effort to produce great results.

That means, the least Moire, color problems, etc. As close to a DSLR in regards to ease of use as it ocmes in the MFDB world.

The P30+ should be great at high iso too and the Phase backs are already excellent in long exposures and the + will probably just reinforce the fact.

So I would get the P30. It still has enough MP so that it still has and will have some separation between it and the 1Ds mk2 and upcoming Mk3. The mk3 will have close to 22MP! The P21 will probably still be able to produce better images than the unreleased 1Dsmk3 but still best to be above it in MP for marketing purposes.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 09:57:23 AM by KenRexach » Logged
Joe Behar
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2006, 07:58:29 AM »
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So why 30 mp? Catalogues are smaller than that, magazines are, some ads go bigger, I understand that if you were shooting an ad. that was going to run big in a store or something but for 95 % of work 18mp would be a better choice it seems. Am I missing something?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The P30 will allow you to do things like crop in on an image and still get the res you need.
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awofinden
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 09:09:22 AM »
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The P30 will allow you to do things like crop in on an image and still get the res you need.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I see it could be good for that.
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clawery
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 03:42:57 PM »
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Don't forget the P21 is 18MP and the P30 is 31MP.
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awofinden
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 06:36:02 AM »
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Don't forget the P21 is 18MP and the P30 is 31MP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well thats the crux of the question, if your printing 300 dpi 11 *14 with little cropping, whats the use in the extra resolution? Moire will be reduced but beyond that then what? There are obvious downsides of the extra resolution (bogging down the workflow, slow shooting) but what are the upsides?
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clawery
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 03:26:11 PM »
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Well thats the crux of the question, if your printing 300 dpi 11 *14 with little cropping, whats the use in the extra resolution? Moire will be reduced but beyond that then what? There are obvious downsides of the extra resolution (bogging down the workflow, slow shooting) but what are the upsides?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It really depends on how you shoot and what will best fit your workflow.  I would recommend the P30,  but that is my preference.

See if this PDF will help you a bit:

[attachment=1414:attachment]
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awofinden
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 05:26:09 AM »
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It really depends on how you shoot and what will best fit your workflow.  I would recommend the P30,  but that is my preference.

See if this PDF will help you a bit:

[attachment=1414:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91673\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

why would you recomend the P30?
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