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Author Topic: Sinar distribution of Hy6  (Read 25325 times)
robert zimmerman
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« on: December 04, 2006, 08:01:22 AM »
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Just received a news letter from Sinar stating that they are, as of now, the exclusive distributor of all Rollei products in Germany and Austria. The HY6 can now be ordered through Sinar.
Also, if ordered by Dec. 31st, "Early Bird" orderers will be given a free Rolleiflex 6008 AF and 80mm PQS which will be exchanged for the HY6 2. Quarter 2007.

PROMOTION
(gültig bis 31. Dezember 2006)

Sinar Hy6 "Early Bird" Angebot

Bestelle jetzt eine Sinar Hy6 mit 80 mm Optik (Schneider AF Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS) - und erhalte vorerst eine Rolleiflex 6008 AF*.
Gratis-Austausch der Rolleiflex 6008 AF durch ein Sinar Hy6 Kameragehäuse (geplant ca. 2. Quartal 2007) - oder sie behalten die Rolleiflex 6008 AF als Backup nach Erhalt der Sinar Hy6 zu einem sehr attraktiven Preis.


Questions:

Why is Rollei giving Sinar the "exclusive" distribution rights?

Is Sinar selling the Hy6 only in a Sinar mount?

Will the Rollei "Early Bird" cameras be offered with adapters for non Sinar DB's?

Where does this leave Leaf (Phaseone) with the HY6?

Will Leaf (or Calumet?) also be exclusively distributing the "Leaf" Hy6?

How will Leaf handle current Leaf back owners who are using other systems (Blad, Contax, etc.)?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 08:36:21 AM »
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Is Sinar selling the Hy6 only in a Sinar mount?

The Hy6 has it's own mount and will be supported by Leaf, Sinar and probably Phase One in time. Only backs which are fairly uncertain are the Hasselblad backs.

Quote
Will the Rollei "Early Bird" cameras be offered with adapters for non Sinar DB's?

Phase and Leaf backs are not adaptable. They can only be swapped over for a new unit.

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Where does this leave Leaf (Phaseone) with the HY6?

I expect they will both make backs available in Hy6 mount as soon as the Hy6 is released.

Was there no price attached to that offer?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 08:36:50 AM by foto-z » Logged

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kendal
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 12:57:46 PM »
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what about the Early Bird prices?
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 02:51:54 PM »
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This is what I recieved:

Promo Package Digital Bundles until Dec. 31st 2006:

Rollei 6008 AF*, Schneider AF Xenotar 2,8/80 PQS, Eyelike Precision M22, Adapter M22/Rollei: €19.920 - 30% Rebate = €13.900

Rollei 6008 AF*, Schneider AF Xenotar 2,8/80 PQS, Sinarback 54H (Firewire), Adapter Sinar FW/Rollei: €28.394 - 23% Rebate = €21.800

Rollei 6008 AF*, Schneider AF Xenotar 2,8/80 PQS, Sinarback 54M, Adapter Sinar M/Rollei: €21.326 - 22% Rebate = €16.700

Rollei 6008 AF*, Schneider AF Xenotar 2,8/80 PQS, Sinarback Emotion 75, Adapter Sinar Emo./Rollei: €31.200 - 27% Rebate = €22.800

*(inbegriffen Schachtsucher, Akku, Ladegerät, 6x6 cm Filmmagazin, Handgriff, Tragriemen)

These are the rebate prices that were included in the email. I'm just guessing that these prices are also part of the 6008AF loaner, Hy6 Trade in offer. It's not stated directly though.
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 03:21:58 PM »
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Official news here:

http://www.sinarcameras.com/

Digital bundles pdf below.
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william
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 04:14:41 PM »
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Anyone know which of the big US dealers are Sinar distributors?

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Official news here:

http://www.sinarcameras.com/

Digital bundles pdf below.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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fotodog24
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 04:38:20 PM »
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Sinar Bron killed off most of their dealers in the US earlier this year. There are only 5 or 6 left, but the big one is Calumet (maybe soon the only one(?))... Fotocare in NYC is another one.



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Anyone know which of the big US dealers are Sinar distributors?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88653\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 05:12:39 PM »
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Strange that the e22 is missing from the packages.

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I'm just guessing that these prices are also part of the 6008AF loaner, Hy6 Trade in offer. It's not stated directly though.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88636\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually there is a message at the bottom of the PDF stating (in German) that these offers may not be combined with other offers.
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mattlap2
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 05:18:46 PM »
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Anyone know which of the big US dealers are Sinar distributors?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88653\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

William,

Where in the country are you located?   I would be more than happy to direct you to dealer close to you.

Thanks,

Matt LaPointe
Regional Sales Manager
Sinar Bron Imaging
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
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kendal
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 02:15:53 AM »
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sinarback e22 is missing indeed!
any idea why? maybe its the only seller at the moment.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 04:59:08 AM by kendal » Logged
william
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 09:09:21 AM »
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Matt,

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A.  Feel free to contact me offline at wmc@case.edu.

Quote
William,

Where in the country are you located?   I would be more than happy to direct you to dealer close to you.

Thanks,

Matt LaPointe
Regional Sales Manager
Sinar Bron Imaging
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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SeanBK
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 09:55:08 AM »
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Matt,

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A.  Feel free to contact me offline at wmc@case.edu.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88794\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
William, I believe Dodd Camera in Cleveland IS distributer for Sinar. They are very good.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 09:55:57 AM by SeanBK » Logged
william
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 11:02:11 AM »
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Thanks.  I knew Dodd's carries Phase, Leaf, Hassy, but wasn't sure if they handled Sinar.

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William, I believe Dodd Camera in Cleveland IS distributer for Sinar. They are very good.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88801\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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kendal
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 09:30:54 AM »
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I just talked to a sales person from the official sinar distributor here in switzerland.

she does not know anything about the package deal.

she was not interested at all helping me or try to figure out if this package deal will be available in switzerland at any time.

the only thing she was able to give me was the normal price of the backs (from the pricelist they shipped me last week)!

nice service !  
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thsinar
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2006, 09:36:56 AM »
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I just talked to a sales person from the official sinar distributor here in switzerland.

she does not know anything about the package deal.

she was not interested at all helping me or try to figure out if this package deal will be available in switzerland at any time.

the only thing she was able to give me was the normal price of the backs (from the pricelist they shipped me last week)!

nice service ! 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88983\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

dear Kendal,

there is of course a package including the eMotion 22, and all Sinar distributor (should) know this.

I don't know who you spoke to, but I would advice you to contact Sinar's sales manager for Switzerland by calling Sinar AG directly: please explain your case to him (or to another person there if he is out of office).

If you are wish you can also contact me offline at my email address.

thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG
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Thierry Hagenauer
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william
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2006, 10:27:21 AM »
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Let's return to this early bird deal n the Hy6.  So, you pay full price for the Hy6 now (whatever that price is) and get a Rollei 6008AF kit in the meantime.  Then, when the Hy6 is available, you can return your 6008 and get the Hy6 kit at no additional charge, correct?  Or, you can keep the 6008 and get the Hy6 as well, and you'll have to pay some additional "keep it" price (which we also don't know the amount of) correct?

Then, come second quarter 2007, you've got a Hy6 in your hands.  Am I correct in understanding that the "Hy6" mount is univeral in the sense that the digital back makers who're on board will all be making their backs in Hy6-specific mounts?  In other words, in doing the early bird deal, I don't need to decide which "flavor" of Hy6 I want (Phase, Leaf, Sinar, etc), because it will only come in one flavor?  If that's true, though, then where do the dealer-branded mockups that we've seen pics of fit in?  E.g., the Sinar Hy6, the Leaf AFi?  Presumably, the Leaf AFi camera won't accept anything but Leaf backs, right? (Otherwise, what's the point of it being branded and marketed as the LEAF camera?)  So how is that consistent with the "only one flavor of Hy6" hypothesis I've laid out?  Furthermore, do we know whether the dealer-branded bundles will be less expensive that the Hy6+equivalent back separately?  E.g., would the hypothetical "Phase One Hy6 45" be sold as a bundle that's less expensive than buying a Hy6 body and a Phase One P45 back separately?

The problem I'm seeing with the early bird deal is that there are too many unanswered questions at this point...Or at least too many qestions I don't know the answer to.
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Gigi
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2006, 11:08:28 AM »
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Without knowing the details, it seems that we have a "conceptual shift" here in this camera.

First, it was goind to be a camera body made by F&H, then modified for each back, and sold under the name of each back maker. Leaf and Sinar liked that idea, and put their name on it. Attractive proposition at first.

Of course, with more reflection, they all probably realized that while that gave the back makers  the assurance of having a camera body to take their back (good, as this is a source of concern, esp. if Hassy goes closed), it also put them peculiarly in the camera business. For example, do they warrant the bodies? Preferably no, but in this scenario, they would have  their names on the front of the body.

So I suspect they are all moving toward having Rollei/F&H or Sinar putting their name on the front, and making a more universal, open adapter system on the back side of this camera body. This way, the back people stay in the back business, and the camera body people stay in theirs.

Of course, this leaves F&H in the awkward position of making a body and not sure about whose backs will be there. Assuming the backs show up (and they probably will), who handles  distribution? If Sinar takes it on, they'll prefer to have their backs mounted with it (ala Hassy). F&H would prefer the largest success possible for the  camera, and thus want the most open system.

If Sinar is generous (clever?) they'll keep it open as possible, but given their currrent pricing approaches, its not too likely that there will be "deals" with the other backs that undercut their own back/camera approach.

What we have here is a series of differing agendas, working themselves out in front of our eyes. They and we all want a system which will take differing backs. How we get there is a bit awkward.

Making a new body working with differing backs is difficult enough, but doable. The distribution side of this is where the wrinkle is - any back maker who distributes this kind of camera will have a bias toward their backs. If the distribution side looks more like Alpa (who don't have a bias to whose back or lens you put on their camera as long as it works), then we would all benefit.
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Geoff
robert zimmerman
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2006, 11:44:03 AM »
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It will be very interesting to see what the financial force (Jenoptik) behind all this will do next.
They just stopped the transfer of their Sinar shares to Leica. I'm pretty sure they own large pieces F&H, Rollei and Sinar. So actually, in the case of Sinar, the name on the front is pretty much the name on the back. It would be a shame but something tells me Leaf may find themselves without a camera partner soon.


Quote
Without knowing the details, it seems that we have a "conceptual shift" here in this camera.

First, it was goind to be a camera body made by F&H, then modified for each back, and sold under the name of each back maker. Leaf and Sinar liked that idea, and put their name on it. Attractive proposition at first.

Of course, with more reflection, they all probably realized that while that gave the back makers the assurance of having a camera body to take their back (good, as this is a source of concern, esp. if Hassy goes closed), it also put them peculiarly in the camera business. For example, do they warrant the bodies? Preferably no, but in this scenario, they would have their names on the front of the body.

So I suspect they are all moving toward having Rollei/F&H or Sinar putting their name on the front, and making a more universal, open adapter system on the back side of this camera body. This way, the back people stay in the back business, and the camera body people stay in theirs.

Of course, this leaves F&H in the awkward position of making a body and not sure about whose backs will be there. Assuming the backs show up (and they probably will), who handles distribution? If Sinar takes it on, they'll prefer to have their backs mounted with it (ala Hassy). F&H would prefer the largest success possible for the camera, and thus want the most open system.

If Sinar is generous (clever?) they'll keep it open as possible, but given their currrent pricing approaches, its not too likely that there will be "deals" with the other backs that undercut their own back/camera approach.

What we have here is a series of differing agendas, working themselves out in front of our eyes. They and we all want a system which will take differing backs. How we get there is a bit awkward.

Making a new body working with differing backs is difficult enough, but doable. The distribution side of this is where the wrinkle is - any back maker who distributes this kind of camera will have a bias toward their backs. If the distribution side looks more like Alpa (who don't have a bias to whose back or lens you put on their camera as long as it works), then we would all benefit.
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thsinar
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2006, 11:56:23 AM »
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Let's return to this early bird deal n the Hy6.  So, you pay full price for the Hy6 now (whatever that price is) and get a Rollei 6008AF kit in the meantime.  Then, when the Hy6 is available, you can return your 6008 and get the Hy6 kit at no additional charge, correct?  Or, you can keep the 6008 and get the Hy6 as well, and you'll have to pay some additional "keep it" price (which we also don't know the amount of) correct?

Then, come second quarter 2007, you've got a Hy6 in your hands.  Am I correct in understanding that the "Hy6" mount is univeral in the sense that the digital back makers who're on board will all be making their backs in Hy6-specific mounts?  In other words, in doing the early bird deal, I don't need to decide which "flavor" of Hy6 I want (Phase, Leaf, Sinar, etc), because it will only come in one flavor?  If that's true, though, then where do the dealer-branded mockups that we've seen pics of fit in?  E.g., the Sinar Hy6, the Leaf AFi?  Presumably, the Leaf AFi camera won't accept anything but Leaf backs, right? (Otherwise, what's the point of it being branded and marketed as the LEAF camera?)  So how is that consistent with the "only one flavor of Hy6" hypothesis I've laid out?  Furthermore, do we know whether the dealer-branded bundles will be less expensive that the Hy6+equivalent back separately?  E.g., would the hypothetical "Phase One Hy6 45" be sold as a bundle that's less expensive than buying a Hy6 body and a Phase One P45 back separately?

The problem I'm seeing with the early bird deal is that there are too many unanswered questions at this point...Or at least too many qestions I don't know the answer to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90702\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

William,

At first, let me give an important precision about "early bird" deals concerning Sinar and the Hy6: YES, Sinar AG Switzerland is selling this camera (under the Sinar name Hy6) and is offering such promotion packages to all its distributors worldwide and at the same conditions for all distributors. It is obvious that those promotions might slightly look different in different countries, due to local differences. As such, Sinar is obvioulsy giving warranty for this particular Hy6 camera. This being said:

1. that is correct: you can swap and get the Hy6 with no additional charge. There is a possibility also to KEEP the 6008 at an additional charge which depends on the distributor (country) but which should be about less than 1/2 the new price.

2. First one has to define "the digital back makers who are on board": Sinar is selling this camera worldwide. Another "on board" is Leaf, with their own AFi.

I can speak only for Sinar: we will certainly produce all possible adapters for our own Sinarbacks. My guess is that Leaf will be doing the same with the AFi for their own backs. This is nothing but logical.
Further, I do not see Sinar or Leaf developing and producing adapters for other brands, and at the same time I do not see Sinar or Leaf able to stop other brands to develope and produce themselves the adapters for their own backs, if they wish so.

I hope it makes things a bit more understandable.

Thierry
Sinar AG
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2006, 12:13:08 PM »
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I do not see Sinar or Leaf able to stop other brands to develope and produce themselves the adapters for their own backs, if they wish so.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90716\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well Blad seem to be able to stop 3rd party backs - I spose it depends who controls F+H (or whatever they are called) - I think jenoptic have a swing and they 'own' sinar too ??
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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