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Author Topic: Back to Medium Format???  (Read 5624 times)
WarrenRoos
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« on: December 04, 2006, 01:12:57 PM »
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I’m thinking about medium format digital again for some studio work. I currently use the Canon 1dsMark11 and primes.  Some history….I had a 22MP camera (P25) back on the H1 and got rid of them because at the time the back and software had problems capturing my main clients corporate color (a certain maroon). To me the high ISO’s were useless making the camera/back combo something just for tripod use.  I had thought before purchasing ISO 400~800 would be workable. The H1 with a 50MM on it was mighty heavy to boot.

The upcoming Hy6 looks to be what I’d want if I step back into a medium format but I’m not sure whether to pair it with a Phase, Sinar or Leaf  back.  If I do this; price will be a factor as the MF will not be my main platform.  The emotion 75 price until years end of 20K is very tempering.  It is unclear to me at this time that all backs (i.e. a Phase) will be able to be paired with the Hy6 and I could wait a few more months to see what else shakes out.  

I am also unclear if Leaf’s RAW files can be opened and processed in CS2.

For me I have ruled out the H3 and Mamiya platforms but beyond that I am an open slate and would be most appreciative of any suggestions. What do you think might be a good paring?

Do any of you shoot high ISO’s with any of the newer CCD chips? If so could you please send me a PM if you can show me a file?



TIA
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AndrewDyer
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 02:38:00 PM »
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I cannot give you a suggestion of what to buy, as I am using a V series Hasselblad with a Leaf Aptus 22 knowing full well that it will be on a tripod all the time, which for your type of work may be "useless" as you put it. I also intend to hardly ever use it above 50 ISO.
But I thought I would let you know that the Raw Leaf files can be opened in CS2 (they can even be opened in Lightroom). Although I love Photoshop I think that the Leaf software processes the files better than AdobeCameraRaw.
Regards
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bcroslin
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 02:38:07 PM »
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I am also unclear if Leaf’s RAW files can be opened and processed in CS2.

I can't speak to much of your post but I can say for sure that CS2 does indeed open .mos files and does a very good job of converting them.
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WarrenRoos
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 03:00:59 PM »
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your type of work may be "useless" as you put it. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88632\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I shoot people(for business) and my own work(for sanity) using available light when ever possible. As the MF lenses do not have big apertures I need to go up in ISO... making "available light" .. well just about useless to me.

Used as studio/strobe/Hotlgiht/HMI MF cameras and backs I know they rock but that's just not what I'm only after.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 03:05:39 PM by WarrenRoos » Logged

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WarrenRoos
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 03:03:24 PM »
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I can't speak to much of your post but I can say for sure that CS2 does indeed open .mos files and does a very good job of converting them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88633\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I take it the .mos (mos deaf?) files are the Leaf ones? Yes?

I like C1 but also like an all adobe work flow. Makes my pea brained life easier.
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James Russell
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 08:54:13 AM »
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I take it the .mos (mos deaf?) files are the Leaf ones? Yes?

I like C1 but also like an all adobe work flow. Makes my pea brained life easier.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Warren,

I remember your issues with the P-25 from the RG days and understand the issues you had.

I also agreed that at the time the Phase was not probably the exact right tool for your type of work.

Now I think a lot of these products have evolved and matured and IMO you should test and review all of them.

I have a couple of comparision raw files on-line between the Aptus and the Phase P-30 that you might want to look at.

PM me and I will make them available to you.

Best,

JR
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/[/url]
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WarrenRoos
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 11:03:14 AM »
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Warren,

I remember your issues with the P-25 from the RG days and understand the issues you had.

I also agreed that at the time the Phase was not probably the exact right tool for your type of work.

Now I think a lot of these products have evolved and matured and IMO you should test and review all of them.

I have a couple of comparision raw files on-line between the Aptus and the Phase P-30 that you might want to look at.

PM me and I will make them available to you.

Best,

JR
http://www.russellrutherford.com/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88788\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey James.

How do.

Testing would be best. Probably best to cool my jets until I can. Don't really need to get an eMontion and then wait for a camera with an uncertain shipping date. Tempting though.

Best

-w
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bob mccarthy
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 03:36:50 PM »
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I’m thinking about medium format digital again for some studio work. I currently use the Canon 1dsMark11 and primes.  Some history….I had a 22MP camera (P25) back on the H1 and got rid of them because at the time the back and software had problems capturing my main clients corporate color (a certain maroon).

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wonder if an IR filter would have "cured" this aka Leica 8

Bob
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pixmania
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 11:19:20 PM »
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I am also unclear if Leaf’s RAW files can be opened and processed in CS2.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is there a processer that does not work with .mos files?
Phase is the one I know of that has the closed files. Does anyone know about Sinar?


Kevin
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James Russell
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 11:54:16 PM »
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Hey James.

How do.

Testing would be best. Probably best to cool my jets until I can. Don't really need to get an eMontion and then wait for a camera with an uncertain shipping date. Tempting though.

Best

-w
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I would urge anyone not to buy anything that is not shipped and not tested as in the digital world, to come may mean to come for a long long time.

I also suggested testing in exactly the style and workflow you require.

Testing and processing a dozen files really means nothing, if you routinely shoot hundreds or thousand of files a day.

Testing in  a dealers showroom also rarely tells you anythign, unless the show room allows for lighting and changing conditions.

There are two dealers, Dave Gallagher and Capture Integration and Steven Hendrix ad PPR digital (both in Atlanta) that rent and ship if your not local.

Test it on as close to a real project as possible, work your best deal, but never buy just becaus eit's cheaper.

Saving 10, 20 or 30% means nothing if you lose hours and weeks in added post production.

Also get everything in writing, returns, warranty, change of mounts, even get in writing things you might not ever need.  

A good dealer will not mind this.

It's even less of a savings if you buy something that doesn't work for your needs.

And my last piece of advice.  If the product is not yet available, forget about it.

IMO

JR
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/[/url]
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digitalguy
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2006, 12:16:00 AM »
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I cannot give you a suggestion of what to buy, as I am using a V series Hasselblad with a Leaf Aptus 22 knowing full well that it will be on a tripod all the time, which for your type of work may be "useless" as you put it. I also intend to hardly ever use it above 50 ISO.
But I thought I would let you know that the Raw Leaf files can be opened in CS2 (they can even be opened in Lightroom). Although I love Photoshop I think that the Leaf software processes the files better than AdobeCameraRaw.
Regards
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88632\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wow this is great, I remember you and others gettign fed up with MF digital back in the day on the RG site. MF digital has matured and I know that you will be happy with the current results. You have to hand it to the MF digital manufactures for evolving these products, working out the kinks and really being able to demonstrate the difference between DSLR and MF digital.
I am not saying that DSLRs are bad, but as my father used to say, there is a tool for every job.
MF digital will never replace the DSLR and MF digital will not replace the DSLR. There is room for both platforms.
Any speaking of natural progression from DSLR to MF digital did any of you check out the article that Phase just sent out in their new newsletter called PhasePluse ( i think that is what it is called). Anyway they did a feature on a young fashion photographer that went from Cannon to an Imacon and now to a P21. He just recently shot the runway shows at Fashion Week NY in the pit. All the guys around him thought he was nuts using MF digital, but with the P21 (not the plus) he got usable 400 iso shots in mixed lighting.
I am going to try to add the pdf here for you to read. There is no link on the Phase site that I could find.
Warron I am anxious to hear what your findings are as others.

DG
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digitalguy
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2006, 12:17:45 AM »
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I cannot give you a suggestion of what to buy, as I am using a V series Hasselblad with a Leaf Aptus 22 knowing full well that it will be on a tripod all the time, which for your type of work may be "useless" as you put it. I also intend to hardly ever use it above 50 ISO.
But I thought I would let you know that the Raw Leaf files can be opened in CS2 (they can even be opened in Lightroom). Although I love Photoshop I think that the Leaf software processes the files better than AdobeCameraRaw.
Regards
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88632\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wow this is great, I remember you and others gettign fed up with MF digital back in the day on the RG site. MF digital has matured and I know that you will be happy with the current results. You have to hand it to the MF digital manufactures for evolving these products, working out the kinks and really being able to demonstrate the difference between DSLR and MF digital.
I am not saying that DSLRs are bad, but as my father used to say, there is a tool for every job.
MF digital will never replace the DSLR and MF digital will not replace the DSLR. There is room for both platforms.
Any speaking of natural progression from DSLR to MF digital did any of you check out the article that Phase just sent out in their new newsletter called PhasePluse ( i think that is what it is called). Anyway they did a feature on a young fashion photographer that went from Cannon to an Imacon and now to a P21. He just recently shot the runway shows at Fashion Week NY in the pit. All the guys around him thought he was nuts using MF digital, but with the P21 (not the plus) he got usable 400 iso shots in mixed lighting.
I am going to try to add the pdf here for you to read. There is no link on the Phase site that I could find.
Warron I am anxious to hear what your findings are as others.

DG
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WarrenRoos
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 10:45:53 AM »
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Digital Guy,

Well I reckon I was fed up. Crushed really. Still waiting to hear if any of y’all are shooting and happy with the higher ISO’s.  I take PhaseOnes bragging rights information or any manufactures with a spec of cynicism. To me if noise is “filmic” then that’s great. No problems there.

I realize full well that the vast percentage of you are shooting on a mono or tripod and using a lot of some sort of light(s) and at low ISO’s.  

The Hy6 would be the platform.

Too Bad fovion is not bigger.
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WarrenRoos
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2006, 07:27:02 PM »
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Hello....

Ever so hopeful in hearing if any of you are shooting MF at high ISO's and/or hand held with available light?Huh
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James Russell
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2006, 10:39:23 PM »
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Hello....

Ever so hopeful in hearing if any of you are shooting MF at high ISO's and/or hand held with available light?Huh
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Warren,

You really need to specifiy what hand held in available light means to you.

The sample raw files i furnished you of th eP-30 and A-22 were both shot at 200 iso hand held with a Contax, using one 1k diffused HMI.

I have shot the Contax and the A-22 with people hand held at 1/60th and on a tripod shooting people down to 1/15th, but the Contax is much smoother than an H-1/2.

Really and i think you know this, the only way to find out is to test these in your actual conditions, maybe renting for a project or traveling to a city with multiple dealers where you can do almost the same exact test.

JR

[a href=\"http://www.jamesrussellphotography.com]http://www.jamesrussellphotography.com[/url]
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 10:40:31 PM by James Russell » Logged
WarrenRoos
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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2006, 09:08:13 PM »
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Warren,

You really need to specifiy what hand held in available light means to you.

The sample raw files i furnished you of th eP-30 and A-22 were both shot at 200 iso hand held with a Contax, using one 1k diffused HMI.

I have shot the Contax and the A-22 with people hand held at 1/60th and on a tripod shooting people down to 1/15th, but the Contax is much smoother than an H-1/2.

Really and i think you know this, the only way to find out is to test these in your actual conditions, maybe renting for a project or traveling to a city with multiple dealers where you can do almost the same exact test.

JR

http://www.jamesrussellphotography.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89986\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the files!

To me available light.. means to me "low" ambient light. Not the 'ole sunny 16 stuff from the olden days. Just barely F4@1/30th exposure with Lamaze breathing.

I tested a P45 today on an H2 w/ an 80mm. Mighty nice file but the system/wieght was not for me to useable off the old mononucleosis pod. Holding it all day would put in the rest home. I must have learned it wrong the first time out but the H menu is not nor me. C1 does more than I need but it's come a long way and is worth geting to know.

You're right, I have to find time to get to Boston, Chicago or NY for some hands on time. Phase1.1 will come to see me but I'm sure about the others.

I also suspect one of these days soon 35 based system(s) will tick up the rez too.

Felice Navidad,Happy Festivus, Christmas, Quanza, Haunakha, and the all important whatever.


-w
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