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Author Topic: My new Mamiya Zd  (Read 5068 times)
d-max
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« on: December 11, 2006, 11:43:14 PM »
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I just got my new Mamiya Zd but am having problems with lots of noise in the images at long exposures 1-8 seconds at iso 64 and I mean lots of NOISE.

Is this normal or is it a fault with the camera that needs to be repaired. Has anyone shot any images at long exposures with this camera? how dose it work for you?

Also how do I get the firmware update for this camera, will this help?

Thanks

Joel
dmaxphotography.com.au
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 11:52:48 PM »
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Can you post a sample?
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 11:52:54 PM »
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I just got my new Mamiya Zd but am having problems with lots of noise in the images at long exposures 1-8 seconds at iso 64 and I mean lots of NOISE.

Is this normal or is it a fault with the camera that needs to be repaired. Has anyone shot any images at long exposures with this camera? how dose it work for you?

Also how do I get the firmware update for this camera, will this help?

Thanks

Joel
dmaxphotography.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89991\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 11:55:05 PM »
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Hi d-max,

I have had images up to 20 sec, without much noise problem.

However, I think that I did activate the long exposure noise reduction in firmware. I don't have the ZD with me and won't have access to it until Friday. I'll confirm the exact setting name by then but I would think that the manual has information on this, doesn't it?

Most DSLR also need a dark frame substraction to have noise free long exposures, the ZD is not any different. It is probably not as good as the Nikon, Canon and Phase, but the Dalsa sensor is known for not performing as well as the Kodak sensor in this area.

Regards,
Bernard
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 12:09:46 AM »
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Hi Joel
I think I saw the image at Baltronics today. I own a ZD and tried a test with my camera @ iso 50 (1/2, 1 & 2 second) in the store today and they were processed in RAW Processor 1.6.1 and they were pretty clean. I don't use the Mamiya software anymore the( http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper.html) is like having a new camera plus you can use it on over a 100 camera raw profiles, ie Canon, Nikon ect.......... I have also created  a better profile that the default ZD for RAW.  I normally shoot the ZD at iso 50-100 daylight and flash and as a result my Canon 5D now gets very little use. I found the Mamiya processor did not produce a clean file like the RAW PROCESSOR does. I will have to do longer exposures myself and NEAT IMAGE will work with RAW now. This program only costs $60.00 USD and is considered one of the best NR programs on the market. The ZD uses the same chip as the Aptus 22 and this is an older generation chip by Dalsa compared to the Aptus 28 & Aptus 75 or Emotion 75.
Thanks Denis
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 12:12:43 AM »
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Can you post a sample?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here is a sample cropped at 100% I converted it in Adobe Raw. As you see very course noise. This was shot at 8 seconds iso 64 using in camera nose reduction reature and IR Filter

Thanks
Joel[attachment=1337:attachment]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 12:16:34 AM by d-max » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 12:29:20 AM »
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Here is a sample cropped at 100% I converted it in Adobe Raw. As you see very course noise. This was shot at 8 seconds iso 64 using in camera nose reduction reature and IR Filter

Thanks
Joel[attachment=1337:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89998\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To start, I would try to convert the same file with Silkypix evaluation version, or even RAW developper if you are on Mac.

Both are known to handle AAfilterless cameras better than ACR.

Regards,
Bernard
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 04:46:08 AM »
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the dalsa 22 sensor should work clean till 20-40 seconds at iso25. with iso50 the half. higher isos will be very noisy with longer exposures. i speak from the emotion22, the aptus22 behaves very similar here and the mamiya should not mae it too different also, i think.
 can you activate the darkframe shots manually? if so do befroe every shot. sample variation between the sensors exists, so if you dont get clean 1 or 2 seconds exposures return the camera.
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 05:54:03 AM »
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I made this test some months ago when I bought the camera, photos are processed with Mamiya DPS, ISO50, no noise reduction postp. I usually try not to go over 10 sec. You will notice that 6 sec have less "salt grains" than 3, it's because of in- camera NR that gets activated. Sometimes I use Noise Ninja, but usually prefer to leave the grain. Truth is that the sensor grain is very filmlike and it gives a speciall look which is not bad for some photos. I'm also still looking for a tool to remove those blue hot pixels which appear with long exposures and specially with ACR.

Regards.

Arnau.
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 03:54:29 PM »
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Here is a sample cropped at 100% I converted it in Adobe Raw. As you see very course noise. This was shot at 8 seconds iso 64 using in camera nose reduction reature and IR Filter

Thanks
Joel[attachment=1337:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89998\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's plain awful.  I have not sen anything even close to that much noise at below 400 ISO, but then I use Silkypix.  50-60 ISO files from my ZD are effectively noiseless if properly exposed.  Even shadows are clean.  

Quentin
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 06:19:08 PM »
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Thanks Everyone. I just tried Raw Developer and Silkypix. I had better response with silkypix where surprisingly the image came back with minimum noise thought not quite as sharp ( Find converted image to compare with original) what are your thoughts?. I will run some more tests over next few days. The program will take a lot more time than photoshop raw to convert files from a job especially when each image will require different setting. Can it save a 16 bit file like photoshop? I could not find this option in the trial version.

Also a few people mentioned a dark frame. I can not find this in the camera manual, maybe it dose this automatically when noise reduction feature is on.


[attachment=1343:attachment]

Thanks, Joel

www.dmaxphotography.com.au
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 07:42:45 PM »
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Glad that you are now seeing better results.

I believe that in-camera noise reduction does indeed trigger dark frame substraction.

Regards,
Bernard
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 07:57:34 PM »
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Thanks Everyone. I just tried Raw Developer and Silkypix. I had better response with silkypix where surprisingly the image came back with minimum noise thought not quite as sharp ( Find converted image to compare with original) what are your thoughts?. I will run some more tests over next few days. The program will take a lot more time than photoshop raw to convert files from a job especially when each image will require different setting. Can it save a 16 bit file like photoshop? I could not find this option in the trial version.

Also a few people mentioned a dark frame. I can not find this in the camera manual, maybe it dose this automatically when noise reduction feature is on.
[attachment=1343:attachment]

Thanks, Joel

www.dmaxphotography.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi Joel
 This new result is much better than with the Mamiya processor.
From my experience the Mamiya software has sharpening on it and so does RAW Develper. with RAW we turn it off.  It is better to add sharpening as the last thing you do after retouching. I am curious about Bernard having his firmware updated on his ZD this week in Japan. I am not impressed that there is no agent yet for Mamiya in Australia since Maxwells business change with the loss of Nikon & Mamiya a few  months ago.
Denis
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 08:09:21 PM »
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Quote from: mcfoto,Dec 13 2006, 08:57 AM
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 I am curious about Bernard having his firmware updated on his ZD this week in Japan. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90181\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll get it back on Friday morning, but will probably not have the chance to shooting anything significant with it until Dec 25th...  

Cheers,
Bernard
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xacomo
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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2006, 04:40:59 AM »
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I just got my new Mamiya Zd but am having problems with lots of noise in the images at long exposures 1-8 seconds at iso 64 and I mean lots of NOISE.

Is this normal or is it a fault with the camera that needs to be repaired. Has anyone shot any images at long exposures with this camera? how dose it work for you?

Also how do I get the firmware update for this camera, will this help?

Thanks

Joel
dmaxphotography.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89991\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Where did you get it? I Like to have one but It looks not available yet in BH and other stores.
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2006, 06:59:19 AM »
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Where did you get it? I Like to have one but It looks not available yet in BH and other stores.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi
If you live in the US you will have to get a ZD from the UK, Europe, Asia etc... At the moment we have no Mamiya agent in Australia. I own a ZD and I cannot understand why it hasn't been released in the US! I think next year Phase & Mamiya will form some sort of alliance? Leaf & Sinar are going with Rollie Hy6 & Phase is not part of that deal ( yet?). I think next year will be LEAF/SINAR/Rollie...... Mamiya/Phase & then of course Hasselblad H3D39. At the moment only Mamiya will acept Leaf, Sinar, Phase & Imacon backs with there new 28mm lens for next year. Interesting times.
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Denis Montalbetti
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