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Author Topic: Profile Maker 5 input profiles  (Read 3485 times)
ericstaud
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« on: December 12, 2006, 07:12:36 PM »
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I am investigating buying the Profilemaker 5 software and the SG color checker because of the 1 day sale tommorow.  Is anyone using this software to make custom input profiles for their digital cameras?

It seems that this would be a useful software for making a Daylight input profile which would mimic Velvia for shooting gardens and landscapes.  I have used the Leaf Aptus 75 and like the way Leaf makes input profiles for creative effects.  I also like how Phase provides input profiles for different light sources.  I think the creative possibilities go way beyond just making acurate profiles for copywork.

-Eric
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eronald
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 11:57:43 AM »
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Eric,

 AFAIK out of the box camera profile creation is fairly hit and miss. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. The conditions under which the sample are captured are also important.

 In summary, I would expect good results in a studio setting, and cannot say anything about real-life lighting. Also, whether a profile made under one illuminant really works under different lighting is a subject of much debate.

 Please do not take this post as an attack of the software guys - they are the first to agree that camera  profiling is still in development while printer and monitor profiling are fairly mature technologies.

 The camera profiles supplied by the camera makers and consultants are actually *heavily* tweaked by experts who combine experience, judgement and good color vision (golden eyes).

 I would try a different tack here: Rather than start from scratch, I'd grab an existing profile and modify it with the Capture One color editor -- which is actually a supêrb profile editor in disguise.

 Hope this post has been useful, you can also post to the colorsync list where the experts live. Also, I will of course run a sample chart through my licensed software if you ask me nicely

Edmund

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I am investigating buying the Profilemaker 5 software and the SG color checker because of the 1 day sale tommorow.  Is anyone using this software to make custom input profiles for their digital cameras?

It seems that this would be a useful software for making a Daylight input profile which would mimic Velvia for shooting gardens and landscapes.  I have used the Leaf Aptus 75 and like the way Leaf makes input profiles for creative effects.  I also like how Phase provides input profiles for different light sources.  I think the creative possibilities go way beyond just making acurate profiles for copywork.

-Eric
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I am investigating buying the Profilemaker 5 software and the SG color checker because of the 1 day sale tommorow.  Is anyone using this software to make custom input profiles for their digital cameras?

It seems that this would be a useful software for making a Daylight input profile which would mimic Velvia for shooting gardens and landscapes.  I have used the Leaf Aptus 75 and like the way Leaf makes input profiles for creative effects.  I also like how Phase provides input profiles for different light sources.  I think the creative possibilities go way beyond just making acurate profiles for copywork.

-Eric
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pss
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 12:21:40 PM »
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i agree with edmund....i got the email for teh deal as well, but i think it makes more sense (and is cheaper) to tweak profiles in C1.....i shoot mostly studio and still tweak the profiles....
i still shoot the colorchecker, but i more and more ignore the "correct" color anyway...every shot has a slightly different feel, eveybody has a different skintone....for catalog work, the dress has to be the right color, but for most other stuff..color is very subjective....
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bcroslin
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 12:40:38 PM »
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I recently stumbled onto a photoshop script that will build camera profiles and it's free. You'll need a gretag macbeth color chart and some patience while the script does it's thing.

http://www.fors.net/chromoholics/

The script requires some very easy tweaking to add support for the latest version of ACR.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
http://www.bobcroslin.com
ericstaud
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 04:28:05 PM »
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Of course this turns into a good thread after the sale is over   Honestly though, thanks for the replys.  

Edmund, I have read explanations about why the Thomas Knoll ACR method of interpreting color was superior to using an input profile, so I was a little aware of the limitations of ICC profiling for an input device.

bcroslin, I have used the Fors script for calibrating all my cameras using Daylight, Tungsten, and Flourescent light sources.  The color I get out of ACR is much better than with the default settings with the D2x, Aptus 75, Aptus 22.  I recommend it to all of my friends.

I have recently purchased a P45+.  It is because of my success using Fors ACR script to calibrate ACR that I have this interest in PM5 and the SG color checker.  I was guessing that I could tweak an input profile in PM5 much like Phase Ones Color Editor, but with more options and control.

From what you say Edmund, I might try editing Phase's profiles for the P45 in PM5 as a starting point to see how it differs from the Capture Color Editor.  It seems I might meet with greater success than starting with a home brewed profile.

I did spend the $1250 yesterday.  I can use it to profile my Epson if nothing else.

Of course I still think of shooting interiors with Astia, exteriors with Provia, gardens with Velvia, and friends weddings with 400NC.  I get a little tired of the "P45 daylight" profile by comparison.

One big downside to input profiling is that it does no good if I use ACR or Lightroom.  But for right now with the P45 I would like to maximize it's speed and efficient workflow to get finished looking images before hitting the process button.
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eronald
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 05:26:50 PM »
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Eric,

 I am not so sure that the ACR method is "superior". As I am a contrarian I had a chat about this with the aforementioned Thomas Knoll, using a lot of complicated words which I won't repeat here.

 The upshot is that he has some valid technical criticisms of the current ICC approach, and until something that really works is forced upon him I guess he will stick with his method. Which is a pity because third party ICC tools cannot be used with the current ACR approach.

 Which brings us back to your own needs - I think you actually need "looks" more than profiles. There is a cottage industry of looks springing up for Lightroom, and then there is Alienskin some profiles by Holmes, and also the new DxO film pack.

 Anyway, good luck - and keep us informed, please.

Edmund


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Of course this turns into a good thread after the sale is over   Honestly though, thanks for the replys. 

Edmund, I have read explanations about why the Thomas Knoll ACR method of interpreting color was superior to using an input profile, so I was a little aware of the limitations of ICC profiling for an input device.

From what you say Edmund, I might try editing Phase's profiles for the P45 in PM5 as a starting point to see how it differs from the Capture Color Editor.  It seems I might meet with greater success than starting with a home brewed profile.

I did spend the $1250 yesterday.  I can use it to profile my Epson if nothing else.

Of course I still think of shooting interiors with Astia, exteriors with Provia, gardens with Velvia, and friends weddings with 400NC.  I get a little tired of the "P45 daylight" profile by comparison.

One big downside to input profiling is that it does no good if I use ACR or Lightroom.  But for right now with the P45 I would like to maximize it's speed and efficient workflow to get finished looking images before hitting the process button.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2006, 09:01:53 AM »
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I recently stumbled onto a photoshop script that will build camera profiles and it's free. You'll need a gretag macbeth color chart and some patience while the script does it's thing.

http://www.fors.net/chromoholics/

The script requires some very easy tweaking to add support for the latest version of ACR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Doesn't build profiles and only works with ACR in adjusting the Calibrate tab (which is kind of, sort of like a profile editor). It is a very useful script but not the same as rolling your own input camera profiles.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
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