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Author Topic: Street price of IPF5000 - worldwide  (Read 4518 times)
deelight
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« on: December 13, 2006, 05:42:14 AM »
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Hi guys!

As I am considering to buy the IPF5000 I noticed that the price difference between the US and Germany is HUGE!

Our cheapest price here in Germany incl. tax is 2200 EURO, which is around 2750 US $. As I read  on LL the price in the US is around 1500 US $.

How is that possible???  

There is no possibility to import the printer from the US (due to weight and tax conditions) - but how about the rest of Europe (EU)? Does the price differ that much from the US anywhere in the EU?

Whats the best price you found in the EU?

Best regards!

Clem
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francois
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 05:49:53 AM »
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Hi guys!

As I am considering to buy the IPF5000 I noticed that the price difference between the US and Germany is HUGE!

Our cheapest price here in Germany incl. tax is 2200 EURO, which is around 2750 US $. As I read on LL the price in the US is around 1500 US $.

How is that possible???  

There is no possibility to import the printer from the US (due to weight and tax conditions) - but how about the rest of Europe (EU)? Does the price differ that much from the US anywhere in the EU?

Whats the best price you found in the EU?

Best regards!

Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90225\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Last week, I asked for the price in Switzerland and I was quoted 4800 CHF or about 3000. I'm not sure if they were joking. Anyway, European prices are just rip-offs compare to US street prices. And before someone says that it's only taxes, Switzerland only has 7.6% VAT.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 05:50:32 AM by francois » Logged

Francois
deelight
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2006, 05:57:33 AM »
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Last week, I asked for the price in Switzerland and I was quoted 4800 CHF or about 3000. I'm not sure if they were joking. Anyway, European prices are just rip-offs compare to US street prices. And before someone says that it's only taxes, Switzerland only has 7.6% VAT.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Of course I can imagine reasons for different prices in various countries such as import numbers of the product.

But the difference we have with the canon is truely a joke. I am not willing to accept this and will not buy the product if there is no solution that fits my needs. Another option for me is the HP z3100, but time will tell, if it is a good printer. I am looking forward to reading Michaels test...
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amiad
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2006, 06:10:05 AM »
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Of course I can imagine reasons for different prices...Another option for me is the HP z3100, but time will tell, if it is a good printer. I am looking forward to reading Michaels test...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well - This price difference is revered on the inks... At least when I last compared this issue about 3w ago.

P.S. When I last checked the price (~2800$) was for the version with the roll paper support (so price difference is just 800$...)

The price difference is the one thing that hold me back!

About the Z3100... Well this is about twice as expensive!

I was considering the 3800 - but the fact that any curl on the paper - is just potential disaster - I think that I am OFF the market.
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filip baraka
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2006, 06:14:33 AM »
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Of course I can imagine reasons for different prices in various countries such as import numbers of the product.

But the difference we have with the canon is truely a joke. I am not willing to accept this and will not buy the product if there is no solution that fits my needs. Another option for me is the HP z3100, but time will tell, if it is a good printer. I am looking forward to reading Michaels test...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Nothing new for Europe prices, check everything else, same thing. You can even get an european car cheaper in US than in europe

I paid for my printer around 1700-1800 eur, used demo machine one and a half month old with roll feeder, and 2 rolls of paper.

But here in croatia if you want to buy epson 4800 it costs 3.400eur ...
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NikosR
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2006, 08:50:28 AM »
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I was considering the 3800 - but the fact that any curl on the paper - is just potential disaster - I think that I am OFF the market.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90228\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is there evidence out there that the 3800 handles curled paper less well than other printers, or you just read one or two forum messages?

Just curious...
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Nikos
amiad
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2006, 12:04:14 PM »
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Is there evidence out there that the 3800 handles curled paper less well than other printers, or you just read one or two forum messages?

Just curious...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90248\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi,
First - let me state - that I did not have a first experience with the printer - planned to have a private demo (just like i had for z2100 and ipf5000). So what I know - is what I read - from various sources and from technical paper of the printer:

1) There was publication - stating cut sheet handling - with good results - I saw this in a very long thread forum in DPREVIEW
2) I saw a post by an installer of printers- stating problems with curls in a cut sheet - where the print head "left lines" where is actually met the paper surface due to curl
3) I saw a "help me" from another case - stating problem with curl paper - that stuck the machine.

For the technical side:
I was claimed - that no suction action is in this printer - so curly paper can "lift itself" and show its curl to the print head .

So - This is just by reading - and have more details in a week (schedule for my demo).

Amiad
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dittert
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2006, 04:46:02 PM »
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Hi guys!

As I am considering to buy the IPF5000 I noticed that the price difference between the US and Germany is HUGE!

Our cheapest price here in Germany incl. tax is 2200 EURO, which is around 2750 US $. As I read  on LL the price in the US is around 1500 US $.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90225\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am also considering to buy that printer at the moment. However, this price difference is just ridiculous. I was hoping that prices would drop as soon as the Epson 3800 hits the market but somehow this didn't happen.

Do you know a good dealer here in Germany? I thought about ordering at monochrom.com.
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feppe
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2006, 06:21:30 PM »
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As said, such price disparities are nothing new: it's quite common to see something for twice the US price in the EU even before the exchange rate is taken into account. There are a plethora of reasons, but almost all of them boil down to taxes. Although import duties and VAT are "only" 10-30% of the price differential, costs of doing business in Europe is also much higher than in the US. So to keep similar margins companies have to jack up their prices accordingly. When all of this is compounded throughout the entire society we get an economy where people's buying power is a fraction of what it is in the US and we end up spending 1/3 to 1/2 of our working hours working for the government - in the form of income taxation - with no commensurable return. Ok, my blood pressure is going up, let's get back on track.

There's little reason not to import from the US if price is your #1 concern; weight and tax at least are not reasons. You will have to pay import duties and VAT, which amount to ~10-30% depending on which country you reside and what kind of material you are importing. Import duties can be usually found on your country's tax office web page. Postage and handling will be hefty (probably ~$300) and you will pay taxes on freight as well (welcome to socialist Europe).

But all this is offset by the ridiculous price differential you cite as well as the exchange rate (weak dollar). I recently bought a 30D and lenses from B&H, brought them with me to Europe and paid duties, still came out on top. Even with the high cost of postage you'll likely end up saving money, although checking it beforehand is advisable.

The only thing I'd be concerned about is warranty. Canon has a global warranty but I'd double-check to check what exactly is covered with such a heavy investment. I got Mack Camera extended global warranties on my stuff but I don't know if they offer that for printers. www.mackcam.com
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NikosR
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2006, 11:58:22 PM »
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Everything is more expensive here in EU, but the differences people are quoting for the Canon are too great.

I just got my Epson 3800 which cost me Euro 1500 including 19% VAT here in Greece. If you are a pro, this VAT of 19% is indirectly returned to you, so the actual cost for the business is Euro 1270 which is about US 1650. Not cheap but much cheaper than the Canon.

Importing the printer from US, would have cost me more, not to mention the warranty issues.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 12:02:52 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2006, 12:29:40 AM »
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In the US there's a $500 off promotion if you're trading up from another competitive printer. . so factor that in ;-)
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Ed Dubois
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2006, 11:21:23 AM »
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I feel your pain. In Canada we play this game too. The price of the iPF5000 online I found is $1395 US ($1613.95 CAD at today's exchange rate). The price here in Canada: $2500! I guess the printer just gets about $1000 better by crossing the border.

I prefer to support local businesses and will pay a bit more to buy locally but when I can get those kinds of price differentials I end up buying in the states and shipping to a mail box business right at the border (and usually get free shipping too). Then I drive across, pick up my item, pay the taxes and duties and I'm huge amounts ahead. In the case of this printer, buying it in the US is almost like getting a free set of inks compared to the Canadian prices.

In the past I have gone to local dealers to ask if they could match (or at least come close to) the US prices and have been told no they weren't interested. Hmmm.
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feppe
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 12:42:01 PM »
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I feel your pain. In Canada we play this game too. The price of the iPF5000 online I found is $1395 US ($1613.95 CAD at today's exchange rate). The price here in Canada: $2500! I guess the printer just gets about $1000 better by crossing the border.

I prefer to support local businesses and will pay a bit more to buy locally but when I can get those kinds of price differentials I end up buying in the states and shipping to a mail box business right at the border (and usually get free shipping too). Then I drive across, pick up my item, pay the taxes and duties and I'm huge amounts ahead. In the case of this printer, buying it in the US is almost like getting a free set of inks compared to the Canadian prices.

In the past I have gone to local dealers to ask if they could match (or at least come close to) the US prices and have been told no they weren't interested. Hmmm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90843\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Please don't blame the local businesses. As said, it's all about taxes (direct and indirect) and the blame is on bureaucrats and politicians. And people who vote for them.
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John Camp
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2006, 01:55:33 PM »
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<snip> When all of this is compounded throughout the entire society we get an economy where people's buying power is a fraction of what it is in the US and we end up spending 1/3 to 1/2 of our working hours working for the government - in the form of income taxation - with no commensurable return. Ok, my blood pressure is going up, let's get back on track. <snip>
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I hear this a lot, but it's not really true for most of the United States. We have both federal and state income taxes. Taking the two together (and you get to deduct state taxes from the federal, so you don't wind up being taxed on taxes), I pay very close to 41% of my income in federal and state income taxes alone. In addition, I also pay about 3% of the value of my real property in annual property taxes, and 6% in sales tax (which is something like VAT) on all my retail purchases. We also have gasoline taxes, utility (electric, water) taxes, etc., and when we travel, there are extra hotel taxes...Overall, I probably spend something like 45% of my income on taxes.

I think the big difference is the cost of doing business in Europe. I travel there frequently, and I'm often shocked at the cost of the most routine things, like food. The cost here is held down by brutal competition, and cut-throat business practices. For example, our current minimum wage is something like $5.15 an hour, with NO guaranteed health benefits or vacations. That means that a worker in low-level retail can make as little as 9000 euros a year, working fulltime, with no benefits.

So when you pay more for a printer...it might be because the cost of the printer is holding up your whole life-style. You would NOT want to be a worker at WalMart, I promise you...

JC
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feppe
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 02:36:23 PM »
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I hear this a lot, but it's not really true for most of the United States. We have both federal and state income taxes. Taking the two together (and you get to deduct state taxes from the federal, so you don't wind up being taxed on taxes), I pay very close to 41% of my income in federal and state income taxes alone. In addition, I also pay about 3% of the value of my real property in annual property taxes, and 6% in sales tax (which is something like VAT) on all my retail purchases. We also have gasoline taxes, utility (electric, water) taxes, etc., and when we travel, there are extra hotel taxes...Overall, I probably spend something like 45% of my income on taxes.

I think the big difference is the cost of doing business in Europe. I travel there frequently, and I'm often shocked at the cost of the most routine things, like food. The cost here is held down by brutal competition, and cut-throat business practices. For example, our current minimum wage is something like $5.15 an hour, with NO guaranteed health benefits or vacations. That means that a worker in low-level retail can make as little as 9000 euros a year, working fulltime, with no benefits.

So when you pay more for a printer...it might be because the cost of the printer is holding up your whole life-style. You would NOT want to be a worker at WalMart, I promise you...

JC
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Anecdotal evidence doesn't count when we're talking about the aggregate. Besides, the rest of the western world has most if not all of the taxes you list, but ours are often higher. In addition, we have very steeply progressive taxation in the EU (much more-so than in the US), ie. the more you earn, the more you pay taxes - not only in absolute but also in relative terms.

In fact, overall tax burden in the US is the lowest in the west and one of the lowest in the developed world. US with its 25% tax burden is small compared to Germany's and UK's ~35% and diminutive compared to Nordic countries' 45-50%. PDF source here: images.forbes.com/media/2006/05/Overall_Tax_Burden_Governemt_Spending.pdf

I agree completely with your notion that cost of doing business in the EU is higher than in the US, and that has to do with the obscene disparity in pricing of (luxury) goods. Most of this is due to the above taxation levels, but there's also much more red tape, regulations and rules to follow here which equal higher cost of doing business.

And your last paragraph is putting it in beautiful context: most Europeans - especially in Nordic countries - are perfectly fine with the higher prices as it equals better welfare on aggregate. But it also means that there are less incentives to innovate, to amass wealth and to spend discretionary income on goods and services. Whether this is a good or a bad thing for an individual or the society is clearly beyond this discussion or the board. But the bottom line is that most goods are expensive in Europe because taxes attached to them directly and indirectly pay for all the numerous public goods available to any EU citizen.
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Dan Wells
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 08:28:15 PM »
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When comparing taxes in the US versus Europe remember to factor in the (private) cost in the US of things that are part of taxes in Europe. The major one is health care, which costs Americans a huge amount of money, on top of taxes - in Europe, that is part of the much higher taxes. There are a number of other smaller examples, mostly having to do with education and child care. We pay less in taxes here in the US, but we also get a lot less for our taxes.

     -Dan
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feppe
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 10:07:57 PM »
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When comparing taxes in the US versus Europe remember to factor in the (private) cost in the US of things that are part of taxes in Europe. The major one is health care, which costs Americans a huge amount of money, on top of taxes - in Europe, that is part of the much higher taxes. There are a number of other smaller examples, mostly having to do with education and child care. We pay less in taxes here in the US, but we also get a lot less for our taxes.

     -Dan
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Of course, but as taxation and public finances are inherently less efficient (*mumble* harberger triangles *mumble* deadweight loss *mumble*) than when the "market" is left to its own devices, USians get more bang for their buck by paying private institutions for the same things Europeans do by paying taxes. Not to mention I'd rather decide where my money goes than let some bureaucrat with a bachelor decide it for me.
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diuser
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 11:47:09 PM »
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Here in South Korea, the best price I have seen up to now is KRW 3,960,000 (sinusmall.com). That is  USD 4,314 at today's exchange rate. In comparison, the European prices don't look all that bad.
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