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Author Topic: 2007 outlook  (Read 64332 times)
mcfoto
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« on: December 19, 2006, 03:42:12 AM »
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Hi
Looks to me that Mamiya is the only open platform MF system on the market now. The Hy6 project is only Sinar & Leaf.  Then there is the new Hasselblad H3D39 with there new 28mm lens. ( closed loop ). I was at the Hasselblad launch here in Sydney and there marketing is first rate. I was surprised that they made a back to fit Mamiya. 2007 looks to be an interesting year.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 03:51:50 AM »
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It's spelled "Rollei"

Afaik, the Hy6 is open platform. In other words, all the back manufacturers are free to make backs which will fit.
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mcfoto
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 03:59:05 AM »
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It's spelled "Rollei"

Afaik, the Hy6 is open platform. In other words, all the back manufacturers are free to make backs which will fit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91343\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi
Sorry about the spelling and at the moment only Sinar & Leaf will fit the Hy6 platform. Jenoptok owns Sinar and wants to increase there market share in MFD backs.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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michael
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 04:48:41 AM »
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You can also expect Phase One to support and provide the Hy6 camera, which therefore makes it 100% of the independant medium format back makers. The only excpetion being, of course, Hasselblad.

Michael
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Wim van Velzen
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 06:31:11 AM »
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I suppose Imacon will offer an adapter (as they do now for Rollei 6008) for the Hy6.

I at least certainly hope so!
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michael
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 07:54:20 AM »
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Who is Imacon?  
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Rob C
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 08:05:46 AM »
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Who is Imacon? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Never mind the tyranny of non-compatible backs - wouldn't it be even nicer if there was ONE standard throat/flange for all quality cameras and lenses? It would have transformed Leica's fortunes and allowed me more choice to boot!

Ciao - Rob C
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hcubell
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 09:36:27 AM »
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You can also expect Phase One to support and provide the Hy6 camera, which therefore makes it 100% of the independant medium format back makers. The only excpetion being, of course, Hasselblad.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Michael, only the senior mangament of F&H, Sinar and Leaf(and the companies' lawyers) have any real idea of what is in the fine print in the contracts between them as to who has what rights to distribute the Hy6, whose backs will be compatible with each company's version of the Hy6, and who has what rights to specific quantities of production.  And I can assure you, there is a LOT of fine print in those agreements. I would expect that neither Thierry nor Yair has seen the actual language. These players are every bit as focused (and anxious)as Hasselblad is in protecting their position. They really don't care about Phase and their owners having happy homes for their backs in the future. They are all conspiring individually and probably collectively to lock Phase and the owners of its backs out of a camera platform, so they will switch to Sinar or Leaf. Not what you want to hear, but a fact of capitalistic life. And if the Hy6 starts off "open", please don't bet the ranch on it staying that way.
We can all check in next summer and see who is selling the Hy6, whose backs go on it, what integration has beeen achieved between the camera, the lenses and the backs, and what the cameras and lenses cost(WOW!).Of course, all of this may become an amusing footnote if Canon comes out this Spring with a new camera in a new format that competes even more directly with the MFDBs at 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost. It will be a fully closed system, but everyone will happily go running off to buy it without a hint of protest, and Rollei will continue to Rollei.
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william
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 10:18:14 AM »
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Hold the phone, here: that's the first time I've heard anyone say this with any firmness as opposed to conjecture.  Michael, are you able to clarify whether this is your expectation based on what would be logical and make business sense (for both Phase and F&H), or your expectation based on information from Phase?

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You can also expect Phase One to support and provide the Hy6 camera, which therefore makes it 100% of the independant medium format back makers. The only excpetion being, of course, Hasselblad.

Michael
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 10:22:10 AM by william » Logged
BJNY
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 10:32:03 AM »
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hcubell,
I heard the same about Canon coming out with a new format.  Do you have any details?
Billy
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Guillermo
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 11:15:47 AM »
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You can also expect Phase One to support and provide the Hy6 camera, which therefore makes it 100% of the independant medium format back makers. The only excpetion being, of course, Hasselblad.

Michael
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Hold the phone, here: that's the first time I've heard anyone say this with any firmness as opposed to conjecture.  Michael, are you able to clarify whether this is your expectation based on what would be logical and make business sense (for both Phase and F&H), or your expectation based on information from Phase?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Michael is generally very circumspect about separating speculation from hard information.  Also, remember that he has close connections with Phase, which 1) gives him information that others might not have, and 2) requires that he not burn his friends by saying more than he should.

This sounds like it's probably coming straight from the horse's mouth.  With the understanding that, in business, anything that's certain today may change completely tomorrow.
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hcubell
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 12:58:37 PM »
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hcubell,
I heard the same about Canon coming out with a new format.  Do you have any details?
Billy
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No details, but I did hear it about it from a "very well informed source" and the likely announcement date would be PMA.
If you go back and read carefully the interview that was done with the President of Hasselblad on the LL site earlier this year, you can clearly see that Hasselblad is less focused on Phase, Leaf, etc. as its competition and primarily on Canon. Everyone has assumed that Hasselblad's motivation with the H3D was locking out Phase and Leaf.  Hasselblad felt that, in order to compete in the future with Canon, it had to develop a fully integrated, ultra-high end DSLR that moved the playing field forward with things like a 28mm and T/S lenses and digital APO correction, one battery, a special viewfinder tailored to the format of the chip, and perhaps other surprises. There is a parallel in the computer world. Do you want a tightly integrated, hardware/software, closed platform like a Mac that has state-of-the-art performance(and looks beautiful to boot)or do you insist on having a PC where you have the ability to configure everything yourself? We will see if Hasselblad's assessment of the playing field is accurate. I personally would put my money on them. I would feel otherwise if I had not satified myself that the H3D-39 is the real deal.
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josayeruk
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 02:42:03 PM »
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You can also expect Phase One to support and provide the Hy6 camera, which therefore makes it 100% of the independant medium format back makers. The only excpetion being, of course, Hasselblad.

Michael
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Goodness Michael.  How do you know if Hasselblad is or isn't developing an adapter for their CF range of backs as they still do to this day for Rollei, Mamiya, Contax, Fuji et al?

Again, Its poor journalism Michael.  Did you get this from Hasselblad directly?  Do they even talk to you after your toy throwing and incorrect article on the H3D?

So far on the other thread the only talk has been that Sinar and Leaf have a right to use this camera.

 

From the Hy6 brochure it looks like a great package but until the summer, as hcubell cleverly says, none of us will really know what the outcome and compatibility chart will be.

If Jenoptik can't even decide if they do or do not want to release 51 percent of Sinar then everything is up for grabs.  Maybe Phase will make an offer... I dunno!!!  Could happen!    

Jo S.x
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pss
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 03:15:01 PM »
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i don't understand the hysteria about the Hy6 and which backs it will or won't accept...there is no indication whatsoever that the Hy6 (rollei or sinar, probably not the leaf incarnation) won't accept phase and/or imacon backs....none...we DO know that sinar backs will fit on the sinar Hy6 and leaf backs on the AFi...that is the plan....so far neither camera is out and it won't be for another 6months....
as wonderful as it is to have a sinar rep and a leaf rep talking about all this, they have no clue what phase or imacon will do....as far as they are concerned, rollei will go the hasselblad way and shoot themselves in the foot and lock out phase and imacon....
i don't have any more information then anyone else....
but i do know that this idea of the "open standard" that circulates in this forum is just ridiculous....there are several MF camera makers and several Dback makers...the chances of them agreeing on a standard are zero....the Hy6 is open because it is most likely to accept all backs...either directly or via adapter, considering that these backs will rotate, the adapter slution seems more likely....and the adapteri s on the camera, not the back....so all back makers will probably have to come up with a mount that fits the Hy6 adaper....so will your P25 fit? probably no backs available today will fit....
if anyone has ever seen or wrked with a rollei 4560 magazine and adapter will understand....the fact that these magazines will work with the Hy6 tells me that rollei is going that way...
there can't be any "system charts" yet...there is no reason for anyone to panic...the Hy6 will be here in 6 months and i hope that they will support phase backs....if they don't someone will make an adapter....
the idea of launching the most promising MF camera in years and what might be the last newly developed MF camera ever and leaving out the biggest target market for this camera (phase back users) is something i cannot believe to be possible....
if it makes anyone happy i have heard a phase rep say that they will be onthe Hy6.....does not make me believe it more or less...reps are the last guys on the chain and a lot of times they will tell the customer what he/she wants to hear based on something they might have heard....
unless i see it in a store or on some website for sale....i just don't believe it....
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rainer_v
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 03:28:46 PM »
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No details, but I did hear it about it from a "very well informed source" and the likely announcement date would be PMA.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91433\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

about the upcoming new canon system, i heard the same. "very well informed source" also.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 03:36:46 PM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 05:10:41 PM »
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Goodness Michael.  How do you know if Hasselblad is or isn't developing an adapter for their CF range of backs as they still do to this day for Rollei, Mamiya, Contax, Fuji et al?

Again, Its poor journalism Michael.  Did you get this from Hasselblad directly?  Do they even talk to you after your toy throwing and incorrect article on the H3D?

So far on the other thread the only talk has been that Sinar and Leaf have a right to use this camera.

 

From the Hy6 brochure it looks like a great package but until the summer, as hcubell cleverly says, none of us will really know what the outcome and compatibility chart will be.

If Jenoptik can't even decide if they do or do not want to release 51 percent of Sinar then everything is up for grabs.  Maybe Phase will make an offer... I dunno!!!  Could happen!   

Jo S.x
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Jo,  You seem a bit touchy about any criticism of Hasselblad. You don't work for them by any chance do you?  

Pete
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 05:13:34 PM by Streetshooter » Logged
josayeruk
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 05:26:08 PM »
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Jo,  You seem a bit touchy about any criticism of Hasselblad. You don't work for them by any chance do you?  

Pete
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Hi Pete,

Ha Ha.  I am only touchy as I used to be a journalist and I hate shoddy reporting.  Also this forum is often a little unsavory towards Hasselblad for whatever reason.

I own an H2D and it works for me great.  But also I can see that the Hy6 is good for 'medium format' as a whole.

The bitchniness / smugness gets me down sometimes.. thats all!    

Jo S. x
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2006, 05:47:00 PM »
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Hi Pete,

Ha Ha.  I am only touchy as I used to be a journalist and I hate shoddy reporting.  Also this forum is often a little unsavory towards Hasselblad for whatever reason.

I own an H2D and it works for me great.  But also I can see that the Hy6 is good for 'medium format' as a whole.

The bitchniness / smugness gets me down sometimes.. thats all!   

Jo S. x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91476\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Don't let it get you down. I find it very interesting reading all the different points of view being expressed. The thing that gets me is the silence from the manufacturers especially when there are issues with certain products and software. A bit more transparency wouldn't go amiss here. Apart from YaYa and Thierry where are the rest of them?

The marketplace will decide if Hasselblad are doing the right thing. It will be good for everybody if Rollei are successful with their new camera. A monopoly does us all harm in the end.

Thanks to Michael and HIS Forum we can all share our thoughts.

'Tis the season of goodwill. Merry Christmas to you all !  

Pete Street
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 05:47:44 PM by Streetshooter » Logged
RicAgu
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2006, 06:09:23 PM »
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Well,

I recently met up with a Canon Beta tester.  I am sure it is not news here that the Canon lenses suck.  Canon has already made their new 20+ megapixel body with true 16bit.  The problems was that the lenses couldn't handle the new chip.  The body is a new design from the ground up but not a new format.  Supposedly it is a bit smaller in size and it is the first body to be built from the ground up for a digital sensor.  Still with the same mount for the lens, but the glass is being completely redesigned.

As per my conversation the new glass will come out first around PMA with the new body not being introduced till Nov 07 which I am sure will have a year worth of modifications by the time we see it.  So to all the argument creators here and speculation use that energy to go out and shoot.  If you need to buy it now, today to work then either go with a Phase or the Hassy.  No experience with the Sinar, so I can't speak of that back and the Leaf has too many problems to really be viable for a daily shooter.

As for a body.  You can either use a Hassy V mount which is still bullet proof other than the little cables that can go bad, a Mamiya if you want to save money and don't need the flash sync, the Contax if you want the Autofocus with Zeiss glass but a dark viewfinder or the Hassy H1 which for me has been very stable other than the occassional error message that takes five seconds to address with a Phase back.

Michael's point in his article about Hasselblad were not unfounded.  It is caugh on video.  Hasselblad said they would be a closed system with no support for others.  So much back lash ensued that they took a few steps back.  I am sure they are continuing in that direction but not being as vocal about it.

How many people need a 28mm?  There are the Interior/Architectural guys and some other speciality guys.  I am a people shooter and I will use what works.  70% of what you see out there is being shot with Phase and Leaf, 10% with Hasselblad digital backs and Sinar and 20% with film.

I proudly shoot with Hasselblad and Phase One backs and have yet to see a problem.  I tried Leaf and it wasn't there for me.  I am willing to try the H3D when they are ready to send out Demo's and see what they do at 400.  Everything is wonderful at 50 and 100.  Workflow is Phase and the real test is what will it be at 400 and maybe we will get good 800 some day.

Best of Luck in your decision and make it yourself.  Don't read our countless erroneous predictions and negative comments concerning the camera systems.  Spend the extra bit of cash with a good dealer that will support you and it seems those only exist in Atlanta.  If you don't want to spend the cash and have a bullet proof system buy a Phase One back.

 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 06:36:43 PM by RicAgu » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2006, 04:55:22 AM »
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I recently met up with a Canon Beta tester.  I am sure it is not news here that the Canon lenses suck.  Canon has already made their new 20+ megapixel body with true 16bit.  The problems was that the lenses couldn't handle the new chip.  The body is a new design from the ground up but not a new format. 

As per my conversation the new glass will come out first around PMA with the new body not being introduced till Nov 07 which I am sure will have a year worth of modifications by the time we see it. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91491\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If the insistent Nikon 35FF D3x rumours are true, end 2007 should be a very interesting period in the history of 35 mm photography.

Let's hope that Pentax manages to release a 30 MP 645 digital in the same time frame for additional excitment.

The final touch would be the announcement of a Mamiya ZD 33.

Cheers,
Bernard
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