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Author Topic: iPF5000 roll paper feed question  (Read 11078 times)
JBillings
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2006, 04:44:11 PM »
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I was having a terrible time using roll paper, and it turned out to be two mechanical problems:

(2) the forward feed mechanism on the auto roll feeder wasn't working. The paper would retract, but not advance the paper. He took the auto roll feeder off, and we could hear something sliding around inside. I suggested perhaps a screw loose; he said it sounded more like a spring. He took it apart, and sure enough, it was a spring that was supposed to keep a gear in place that had come loose. He put the spring back in place, and it seems to be working fine so far.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92646\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hallelujah Bill!

I just got off the phone with Canon Service.  Tech should be out Tuesday to check on the printer.... the roll feed unit is bad.  I took it off to check it out and a white gear fell on the floor.  I'm seriously hoping that leads to some sort of solution.  I will harangue the tech while he's here and see if we can get down to the bottom of this.

I will refer him to this thread and perhaps we'll get some sort of result.

Seriously, thanks for the heads up:)

I will report my results next week.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 04:45:42 PM by JBillings » Logged
Bill J
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2006, 07:41:44 PM »
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I took it off to check it out and a white gear fell on the floor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As I recall, the loose spring was cylindrical, about 1/4 inch in diameter, maybe less, and roughly 3/8 inch long. The gear it was under was maybe 3/8 inch in diameter also, white, held on the spindle with a little black plastic C-clip. Does that sound like your gear?
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David White
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2006, 07:53:56 PM »
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Hmm... I'm running Windows XP. But I have the feeling that we might be on to something. Usually, I have paper in the casette as well. At the moment I don't. Maybe it has something to do with paper being in the cassete when the printer goes into sleep mode.

It should, by the way, retract the roll paper when it goes into sleep mode (it does it every time), but not all the way. Just into a sort of "parking" position. At least, that's what happens with mine. I will also have a closer look, but I think we can forget about OS dependency.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not even sure what the thread is anymore between the jams and gears dropping out of the roll feed, but what I see is this:

First case -

Print to the roll.
Let the printer go to sleep.
Try to print to the cassette and it wants the roll paper removed because it was not parked correctly.

The other situation -

With roll paper loaded, print to the cassette.
Let the printer go to sleep.
It is now possible to print to either the roll or the cassette.

I've never seen the roll paper ejected when the printer goes to sleep.
BTW, I'm on Windows XP.
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David White
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2006, 10:30:09 PM »
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I was having a terrible time using roll paper, and it turned out to be two mechanical problems:

(1) a white roller down inside the printer that was stuck down, due to a burr or some other snag, which a technician corrected by sticking a screwdriver down the back paper feed slot and pressing the side of the roller. It popped up, and he thought the problem was solved, since he had seen this before, and hadn't been called back.

Solving Problem 1 worked OK for the Canon Matte Coated paper and the Fine Art Bright White (after a struggle), but I couldn't get Canon Waterproof Canvas to load AT ALL. I tried to feed it in as far as it would go, but the paper wouldn't move or go into its back-and-forth roll paper load routine. Then the roll feeder would retract the paper completely and the printer had the audacity to say "Can't detect papr" [sic]. I called back the service technician, and he came out again. He determined that:

(2) the forward feed mechanism on the auto roll feeder wasn't working. The paper would retract, but not advance the paper. He took the auto roll feeder off, and we could hear something sliding around inside. I suggested perhaps a screw loose; he said it sounded more like a spring. He took it apart, and sure enough, it was a spring that was supposed to keep a gear in place that had come loose. He put the spring back in place, and it seems to be working fine so far.

All this was very frustrating, since I had already printed 20 or 30 feet on Canon Matte Coated roll paper without any problem. Then one morning I sent a print job and got the "Paper jam" message, then the "Can't detect papr" message when I tried to reload the paper. As soon as I inserted paper, the feed rollers on the auto roll feeder would clamp down and not move.

If it's working properly, you only have to feed the paper in just enough for the roll feeder rollers to grab it and the printer should take it from there. According to the technician, there is a slight curve in the paper path which might cause a problem if the roll paper has too much curl near the end of the roll.

I asked the technician about what happens if the leading edge of the roll paper isn't exactly square and he said the printer doesn't care too much about the leading edge -- that when it's checking paper alignment to prevent possible paper jams, it's checking the side edges of the paper.

I also asked him exactly which area inside is the platen, which you are supposed to clean periodically. (The illustration in the manual is somewhat vague.) It's the 1-inch strip of plastic with all the little vacuum holes and several slots with beveled edges to catch the ink and drain it into the maintenance cartridge when you print borderless. It's those beveled slots that you clean. He showed me there was ink on them even though I haven't printed any borderless prints yet -- the printer spits ink into these areas during a maintenance cycle or startup cycle. Interesting.

Another tidbit: the reason the print heads stop moving if you open the cover while you're printing (unlike my Epson 2200) is because of an OSHA requirement. The mechanism is strong enough that it could really cause serious injury if you were to stick your finger in there while the print heads are in motion.

I hope this helps in diagnosing your problems. In my case, at least, it was not a firmware issue, an operating system issue, or anything relating to sleep mode.

Bill J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92646\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
YES! Thank you for your post! I have solved the problem.

First of all, I have spent way too much time taking apart the auto roll feeder mechanism, but I was determined to find the cause and did not want to risk exchanging my unit for another one with the same problem. All of my issues stem from one little white gear inside the auto roll feeder, the one  that controls the feed rollers on the roll unit. It turns out my auto roll feeder has never worked properly, I just didn't know it until I read your post. My unit would always eject, and clamp down, but never feed. I would just shove the paper down as far as it would go before the roll feeder would clamp down, and the printer would grab it.

Once I opened up the unit and observed the gears in action, I noticed immediately the feed gear would spin without engaging, and then I would get the paper jam error. But, the unit worked fine in reverse. The two gears for forward and reverse sit on a y-shaped yoke which is supposed to rock one way or the other depending on whether you are feeding or ejecting. The problem was, the plastic yoke sits on a spindle and the hole in the plastic was too small to allow the yoke to rock back and forth freely, it was bound pretty tight. I took the gears and the yoke out and used an exacto knifed to shave off a hair of the plastic. I did this a few times, checking the fit each time to make sure I didn't take too much off. Now everything works like a dream. I am fairly mechanically inclined, and if you are not, then I would not attempt this, you would be better off to take your chances with a new unit. I however did not have the patience, or the confidence a new unit would be any different.
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JBillings
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2006, 04:28:18 PM »
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YES! Thank you for your post! I have solved the problem. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92729\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Tix,

Great news. You explanation sounds exactly like my situation. Since the technician is already scheduled for Tuesday, I'll let him figure it out.  I'm gonna pay close attention to this process, and document it and take lots of pictures.

If needed I can post it later for anyone else experiencing the same problem.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 04:29:20 PM by JBillings » Logged
John Hollenberg
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2006, 06:15:47 PM »
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Tix,

Great news. You explanation sounds exactly like my situation. Since the technician is already scheduled for Tuesday, I'll let him figure it out.  I'm gonna pay close attention to this process, and document it and take lots of pictures.

If needed I can post it later for anyone else experiencing the same problem.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Post it on the Wiki (with photos)!!!

[a href=\"http://www.canonipf5000.wikispaces.com]http://www.canonipf5000.wikispaces.com[/url]

--John
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JBillings
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2006, 07:50:25 AM »
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Post it on the Wiki (with photos)!!!

http://www.canonipf5000.wikispaces.com

--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I can do that.  I'm familiar with the Wiki... it's been a great source of info.
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JBillings
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2007, 05:38:37 PM »
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Problem resolved.  It was the loose gear on the roll unit.  Tech was familar with the problem. He'd fiexed it on 3 other occasions.  Will post instructions to WIKI later.
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JBillings
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2007, 06:47:58 PM »
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Canon's definitely got a design flaw.  Their repair lasted all of 2 weeks.  I hear the printer wake from sleep and the roll feed unit jamb.


Time to call tech support again:(
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Bill J
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2007, 10:43:10 PM »
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Canon's definitely got a design flaw.  Their repair lasted all of 2 weeks.  I hear the printer wake from sleep and the roll feed unit jamb.
Time to call tech support again:(
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I had to fix mine again last Saturday. I had an order for a print for someone to give as an emergency wedding present on Sunday. I pressed the unload button in order to load a different paper stock and I got the "Can't detect papr" message. I couldn't load the new roll.

No way to get a technician here on Saturday, so my wife and I took the roll feeder apart while studying those great pictures that Ron Woolhether submitted to the Unofficial Canon iPF5000 Wiki   [a href=\"http://canonipf5000.wikispaces.com/FAQ#CantDetectPaper]http://canonipf5000.wikispaces.com/FAQ#CantDetectPaper[/url].  One of the small white gears with a spring underneath popped off the spindle.

In the second and third pictures of Ron's with the white arrow pointing from the left, it shows three white gears that do NOT have c-clips on them. Two of these are the ones with springs underneath, and these are the gears that are coming off. Question: are there supposed to be c-clips on them and the c-clips simply came off, or did Canon decide c-clips weren't necessary because those three white gears would be held in place by the black gear? At any rate, something's wrong here.

We jammed a tiny piece of plastic wire tie into the slots of the gear spindles to try to keep the little tabs sticking out. We got the thing back together and it works fine now - for now. Thanks to John Hollenberg for his Wiki, and thanks to Ron Woolhether for his pictures!

Bill
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O'Archie
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« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2007, 12:10:50 AM »
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I had to fix mine again last Saturday. I had an order for a print for someone to give as an emergency wedding present on Sunday. I pressed the unload button in order to load a different paper stock and I got the "Can't detect papr" message. I couldn't load the new roll.

No way to get a technician here on Saturday, so my wife and I took the roll feeder apart while studying those great pictures that Ron Woolhether submitted to the Unofficial Canon iPF5000 Wiki   http://canonipf5000.wikispaces.com/FAQ#CantDetectPaper.  One of the small white gears with a spring underneath popped off the spindle.

In the second and third pictures of Ron's with the white arrow pointing from the left, it shows three white gears that do NOT have c-clips on them. Two of these are the ones with springs underneath, and these are the gears that are coming off. Question: are there supposed to be c-clips on them and the c-clips simply came off, or did Canon decide c-clips weren't necessary because those three white gears would be held in place by the black gear? At any rate, something's wrong here.

We jammed a tiny piece of plastic wire tie into the slots of the gear spindles to try to keep the little tabs sticking out. We got the thing back together and it works fine now - for now. Thanks to John Hollenberg for his Wiki, and thanks to Ron Woolhether for his pictures!

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Canon tech guy was here again. Canon now has a technical bulletin about roll-feed problem. They now truely realize problem is more widespread. You should call Canon to rput a pernmanent fix to this problem.
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llama
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« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 12:24:11 AM »
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I'm considering ordering this printer from the US, but with the issues described, I'm going to have to verify if Canon Canada will honour a warranty.  Does anyone have any insights into that?
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JBillings
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2007, 05:23:04 PM »
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The Canon tech guy was here again. Canon now has a technical bulletin about roll-feed problem. They now truely realize problem is more widespread. You should call Canon to rput a pernmanent fix to this problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

New parts arrived today for my printer.  Hopefully this will resolve the problem.  I received a LOWER PENDULUM ROLLER and  a PENDULUM UNIT UPPER ROLLER.  

Tech arrives Monday at 9am.  Will keep everyone posted.
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John Hollenberg
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2007, 05:32:41 PM »
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New parts arrived today for my printer.  Hopefully this will resolve the problem.  I received a LOWER PENDULUM ROLLER and  a PENDULUM UNIT UPPER ROLLER. 

I hope my tech got the bulletin.  Will be coming out next Friday (my day off) to fix the roll feed.  I am going to ask him about the banding in the last half inch of sheets fed from the Cassette, although I am pretty sure this is either a design problem or a firmware problem.

--John
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filip baraka
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2007, 05:42:29 PM »
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I hope my tech got the bulletin.  Will be coming out next Friday (my day off) to fix the roll feed.  I am going to ask him about the banding in the last half inch of sheets fed from the Cassette, although I am pretty sure this is either a design problem or a firmware problem.

--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96657\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi john
that banding from cassete, how to simulate it because i haven't experienced that
Altough I print most from roll;)
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John Hollenberg
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 07:50:59 PM »
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that banding from cassete, how to simulate it because i haven't experienced that
Altough I print most from roll;)

1) Put letter size sheet (8.5 X 11) in the cassette and tell the printer what type and size of paper
2) Resize image in photoshop using bicubic smoother to 7X10, 600 PPI
3) Apply any sharpening, etc. as you normally would
4) Print from Photoshop Plugin using all highest quality settings, no resizing in plugin, centered, monochrome mode

I saw the banding with this method, pretty sure I will see it with color as well--will have to check to confirm.

The key thing here is that margin at trailing edge of paper should be about 1/2 inch.  If you make the margin large enough (> 1 inch or thereabouts) you won't see the problem.  However, that isn't very useful for letter size paper.

If you DON'T see the problem then there is hope for me that my printer can be fixed.

--John
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Bill J
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2007, 02:36:28 PM »
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New parts arrived today for my printer.  Hopefully this will resolve the problem.  I received a LOWER PENDULUM ROLLER and  a PENDULUM UNIT UPPER ROLLER. 

Tech arrives Monday at 9am.  Will keep everyone posted.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96654\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
JBillings,

Who did you call to get replacement parts sent to you? Canon Technical Support or GEI Calgraf (the company that actually sends the technician, at least in my part of the country)?

Thanks,
Bill
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JBillings
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2007, 06:51:40 PM »
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JBillings,

Who did you call to get replacement parts sent to you? Canon Technical Support or GEI Calgraf (the company that actually sends the technician, at least in my part of the country)?

Thanks,
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97040\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bill, I called Canon Technical support (phone number earlier in this thread).  Parts were installed at about 10am today,  by GEI Calgraf tech.


It looks like it will fix the problem.  When examining the parts the split-spindle that holds the offending part seems much more secure.  While I could rotate the gear on the old spindle and it would easily come off.  The new unit it's quite a little bit more difficult to get the gear off.  So it looks it will fix my problem.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 06:52:29 PM by JBillings » Logged
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